It is a very large family of GORMAN and DWYER that I am working with that emigrated from Ireland to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania between 1850 - 1870.
My great, great grandmother was Jane Gorman born about 1838 and her brother was Patrick Gorman born about the same year. At the time of Patrick's death, there were two death certificates written up with information from his sister Jane declaring the names of his parents. One certificate said the parents were James GORMAN and Annie DWYER and the other certificate said James GORMAN and Annie CULL. I don't know which statement of parents will be true however, I do know that there was a large family of Dwyer's in Philadelphia that they appear to be related to. Jane and Patrick also had other siblings named Michael, Bridget Elizabeth, Mary, Ellen and John. There were also at least two other families of Gormans that they were related to - another Jane Gorman born about 1830, Johanna Gorman born about 1825, Thomas Gorman born about 1820 two other Michael Gorman's, another Ellen Gorman and another Bridget Gorman. There may be more.
A John DWYER born about 1830 son of William DWYER and Margaret was one of the related Dwyer's. There was also a Bridget Dwyer born about 1845, Catherine Dwyer born about 1842, Ellen Dwyer born 1846, Johanna Dwyer born 1836, Margaret Dwyer born 1845,
There was also a Reeves family that was probably related. I believe that they were the children of a Richard Reeves and his wife Ellen: Johanna born 1843, John born 1842, Michael born about 1842.
Many of these people married other people from County Limerick including the surnames of CONWAY, FOGERTY, IRWIN and BENNIS etc.
The Limerick locations that seem to be involved are the parishes of Knockainey, Caherconlish and Kilmeedy.
Any direction you could give to me to trace the beginnings of this family unit would be greatly appreciated! I am so grateful for the help because we are going to Ireland in June and want to visit Limerick!! Sincerely, Sandy Lovell
We don't seem to be able to find any records of births in Knockainey for the names above, the only information we can seem to find is that Jane aged 15 and Ellen Aged 16 on the 30th of april 1883 went fron Co. Limerick to Liverpool and from there sailed on the 'Tonawanda' to Philadephia.
Also Patrick went on the same ship Route on 20th of april 1864
John, Elizabeth and Catherine sailed from Liverpool to Philadelphia on the 'Finland' onJan 22nd 1848
The only entry for Reeves in the Parish Records is John Reeves born 8- July -1810 to parents Patrick Reeves and Margaret Buins ( possibly a mis-spelling for Byrnes)
Any records for Dwyers seem to be in the neighbouring parish Hospital
I visited a neighbour of mine last night, a lady in her 80's with a wonderful memory. She spoke to me at length about the old family names in Knockainey and about many who have left here over the years. This lady is particularly good at "tracing" and she gets that skill from her father, who was equally skilled. Her father was born in the late 1800's, probably 1880-1890, and he passed on an enormous amount of folk memory to his daughter.
Anyway, I specifically asked her about Gormans, and she immediately told me that her father often spoke of Gormans who lived in the Commons, an area in Knockainey village where there was a large population in the past.. Other names there were Dwyer and Spellman. Perhaps your Gormans moved in here, and weren't born here?
As John said, we couldn't find any church records here. However, an area of Knockainey called Elton has a lot of links with the adjoining parish of Knocklong, and there are lots of Dwyers in church records there.
Where did you get the information about the years of birth? That seems like a lot of information and knowing the source would be useful.
Let's keep in touch Sandy, and we hope to see you in June.
Thank you for the information John! The ship information of April 30, 1853 does seem to coincide with the arrival of the sisters Jane and Ellen as well as the ages. I have long known that this was probably their ship record.
I suspect that Patrick may have come with his brother John from Liverpool on the ship Saranak from Liverpool in June of 1863.
I really appreciate all the time you took to look for my family! I can't thank you enough! Sincerely, Sandy
Thank you so much for discussing my family with your neighbor! I hope that you recorded everything she said and that it helps someone someday with their family!
The only definite information I have is that my great, great grandmother Jane Gorman's brothers John and Michael were born in Limerick. Whether they were all born in Limerick, I don't know. Where they were born in Limerick, I don't know. However, it does seem that they have a lot of associations with people from this parish.
They also seem to have associations with people from Caherconlish and Kilmeedy parishes.
The years of birth are only speculation from census record sources and could be off by any number of years. I suspect that none of them actually knew their birth dates because otherwise I would have seen one reference. I did in one census record see that Jane Gorman said that she was born in August 1849.
As you know, researching the Irish can be quite challenging! Thank you ever so much for your help Mary! Sincerely, Sandy
Thanks for your reply.
We have all (or most of) the names you mention, but the dates are wrong. If you are not definite on the dates, perhaps we can make a link...
When you come, you can look at the records with us - perhaps we can make the connections then.
What dates do you plan to be in Limerick; we'd love to meet up with you and your friends......let us know!
Mary, can you send me a little bit of information - maybe a sampling of what you have for the similar names? If there is any connection, I might notice right away!
Thank you Mary for all the time you've spent on this! Sincerely, Sandy
Please feel free to contact me using firstname.lastname@example.org if you wish to connect further.
I am wondering if you have made any progress on this line in the past 8 months. I have an ancestor whose father is Patrick GORMAN and whose mother is Bridget DWYER. My ancestor, their daughter, was born in 1786 and baptized/christened at St. Canise's Kilkenny on Patrick Street. This is a bit earlier than the time frame you are referencing, so it may just be a coincidence, but I would like to touch base with you if you think we could be related.
I have discovered where they were from - Lisduane, Ballingarry - Limerick Ireland! I'll email you privately though!
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