Bridget Ellen Hughes

HI Jasalva

the only Bridget Hughes registered in Louth is in Drogheda born August 1866, father John Hughes and Mother Mary Smith, living in North Road, Drogheda, County Louth, this is 23 miles south of Dundalk. The civil and baptism record concur, no mention of the Ellen bit either, there are of course other female Hughes births registered. They can be view for free on Irish Genealogy and Registers NLI. If you want links let me know.

Regards

Pat

Sorry J father was Thomas Hughes not John. Pat

Sorry J father was Thomas Hughes not John. Pat

Thank you so much. As I said, Bridget was very creative with information. She placed her children in an orphanage in Dundalk from 1901-1906. Her husband died in 1901 in Dublin, she placed her children following that. Why Dundalk, not Dublin? If only I could locate their orphanage records! I tried, without success. Your effort is much appreciated!

Judy

Hi Judy we are on first name terms now!!! What is or was her married name, brides usually got married in there home parish, also fathers name and where she was living would be on the origonal civil records. I checked on Bridget Hughes marriages with father Patrick but none appear to fit relating to area, about 6 but in different parts of Ireland, however a church record for an 1887 marriage in Dublin (oddly no corresponding civil record) for an Ellen Hughes father Patrick to a John Henry, tried to see how  many died beofre 1901 but too many and in hospital so no relative present at death or address given. What was her marreid name and where is she in the census of 1901.

Not sure about orphanage records, it may have been easier to get them into an orphanage in Dundalk as Dublin would be so much bigger and poorer. Here is a link to the Louth Archives and an email will elicit whether they have records, however they were normally run by the religious so records are not necessarily available, I am assuming she is RC in all this, religion is important as it shows what records to check, Protestant children are unlikely to be in a Catholic orphanage. https://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Archives/ 

Dog with a bone here, given the precise date given on US papers I searched all females born in Dundalk in 1866 to 1868 and found two with father Pat or Patt, Elizabeth born in November 1866 and registered in January 1867 (mother Ann Short) father farmer, area appears to be Jenkinstown (Cooley Peninsula). The 2nd Elizabeth is born to a Patt Hughes from Louth (assuming Louth village as distinct from County Louth, his occupation is a sub constable, RIC I assume, this would mean he was stationed there but he would not be posted near where he was born. Maybe she was not happy been a policemans daughter, nationalism was well under way by the 1880s and there were land wars etc with evictions but I am jumping the gun here.

If you can give me her married name and childrens names we may be able to check the origonal paperwork, subscription sites do not record all the info on the origonal or can be transcribed poorly.

Interesting Louth site here but no certs etc,http://www.jbhall.freeservers.com/  post 1864 certs can be ordered online and emailed to you if they cannot be viewed here https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ They cost €4 or about $5. Do not order the full legal cert as the info is the same.

Regards

Pat

Thank you for your help, Pat. Bridget was married at St Andrews Roman Catholic Church in Dublin. The year was 1887; her husband was Richard Lutterell. Richard’s parents are John Lutterell and Margaret Byrnes. It is thought that Bridget’s parents were Patrick Hughes and Catherine Walsh. Their church document didn’t list the mothers’ last name. Richard had a brother Edward who got married the same year at another church; the last name of Richard’s mother was given on that document.  Catherine Walsh, Bridget’s mother’s last name, came from anther document. It may be wrong.  If memory serves, the document may be a birth record and may list birth place around Dublin. The informant on USA death certificate said this information was unknown. While in Ireland, and for a while in Durham, England, Bridget had children John, Michael, Catherine, Alice, Edward, Mary Margaret-my paternal grandmother, and Johanna. Only John, Alice and Mary Margaret survived. They were placed in Dundalk orphanage and left for USA in 1906. Bridget came to USA in 1901, following Richard’s death. She married in USA to Frank Shields. When not in England, along with Richard’s sister Alice, the family lived in Dublin. 2 Brunswick Villa is listed on church documents for children and Richard’s civil death document.
Thank you so much for your help. Bridget gave almost no info on her family that I wonder whether she too was put in an orphanage or came from circumstances that she thought were shameful. One other bit of info. Jackson is a family name connected to Bridget. They are suppose to be cousins. I know from DNA connections that this family was from an area just both of Lough.
Judy

Hi Judy, I am beginning to feel you pain, no great footprint here digital or otherwise. I went Googling and you were there before me. I see you death cert for Richard on Ancestry, it does not turn up on Irish Genealogy though which is a bit odd but obviously exists, assume it is 1901. His age must be out as he would be married at circa 14 from the English census or 17 from his death.

Also Bridgit was very young in census. I have an odd ball ancestor whose age varied all the time and found her birth 6 years earlier than her marriage age given, mind you her mother was not much better, age at death 123.  Another thing I cannot find Bridgit in the Irish 1901 census, I have trid varient spellings too.

Found the childrens births and deaths, so sad, two died together from Scarlet Fever, child mortality in Dublin was very high at the time.

From the marriage record at the church which is Westland Row, pass it regularly, there is no corresponding civil record which is odd, both this and the census may have assisted a place of birth might be given, mind you if you could get the actual church record there may be a letter from Dundalk as her baptismal record would be needed and it may recorded or if we found the origonal church record of baptism her marriage would be noted to show she was not previously married. A letter to the church may assist but possibly they are in the NLI now. (National Library). Also the address given is I think Molesworth Street, (Motsworth being a bad transcript)  which is in city centre (his address is not far away either) but Bridgits address is interesting, near the currrent Parliment buildings and various landmarks, wonder was she working somewhere nearby, Molesworth Street in not very long and is the location of Twitters European HQ now, along with Buswells Hotel, noted for the attendence of politicians etc.

It struck me that the orphange (St Josephs Dundalk) which was run by the Sisters of Mercy, a Google search brings back a lot of stuff, not all good either, I wondered if there was a nun sister of Bridgit and maybe that is why she sent them there. Oddly I was at a funeral in the church there last week.

Out if interest I looked up the surname Lutterell, came from the Old French and are one of the chief families of the Pale (greater Dublin and surrounding counties), the name is from the French meaning "The Otter". From McLysaghts Surnames of Ireland, so ye are probably great swimmers.

I did not under stand your last sentence about the Lough. 

Will have a few more looks for Bridgit, I live in Louth, Drogheda about 20 miles south of Dundalk.

Pat

Judy

I looked throughout Ireland for births to suit parents you mentioned and found 3 baptisms in North County Dublin, Brigid Hughes baptised February, Baldoyle Parish, address Feltrim, Dublin, Margaret born Skerries in 1858, this is North County Dublin and Seatown, Swords, County Dublin for Catherine in 1864, all have Patrick Hughes and Catherine Walsh as parents, no others turned up so well spaced. Also possibility of a nun in family.

Again oddly I was born in Swords so am familiar with all these places (even went to school with a Hughes there) Feltrim was famous for its quarry, seen as she married a stone mason. (what he was doing in shipbuilding Sunderland is another question). It is near Swords about 2 miles east of the town, Skerries is a small now upmarket village and a small fishing port, while Seatown is now a built up area (lots of house built there circa 1950) there is a Swords Down Memory Lane FB Page, apply to join. It is on the north end of the town, Swords is close to Dublin Airport and has expanded hugely as has all on north Dublin in the last 30 years. 

I looked very briefly at the census for Hughes but gave up, none turned  up in Swords. (Gaelic is Sord Colmcille and Swords is the english version, nothing to do with weapons).

Do you think this could be your lot. There are some Bridgits in other areas too. By the way the spelling is with a D or not depending. Irish Civil registration came into force in 1864 but it appears to have by passed the Hughes Family and their daughter. :)

Regards for now,

Pat

Good Day Pat,

I am going to try to respond to your emails in order, one item at a time.  Glad to hear that you also have ancestors whose histories are difficult to untangle-one hundred and twenty three years old, older than Moses-wow!

First email:

Richard Lutterell: I ordered Richard's Death Certificate through an Irish site.  I was led to that site by someone online from your country.  Two Brunswick Villa, Dublin was definitely Richard's address toward the latter years of his life, all information.confirms it. Date of Death: 14 Jan 1901.  Bridget continued to live at the same address but after Richard's death she no longer appears to be the primary dweller.  Bridget lived with others at that same address and on that record she changes her age-got much younger, says that she doesn't have children and states that she is from County Cork.  (The children were evidently gone at this time.)  I believe this is how it appears in the 1901 address record (perhaps something other than the 1901 Census) for 2 Brunswick Villa, Dublin.  

Bridget left for America in the same year of Richard's death, still in 1901. Richard was baptized in 1860 in Pitt, Kilkenny, according to a baptismal record (12 Feb. 1860) on Ancestry.  His parents names confirm the record.  It looks like Bridget was baptized in 1867 possibly in Malahide on 9 Feb.  So the couple really wasn't that young when they got married.  Who were the two children that died of scarlet fever and where can I get that record?  I am sorry to hear that there is no corresponding civil record for Richard and Bridget's marriage; it would have been nice to have a additional source of information.!  

My parents stopped by St Andrew's while visiting Ireland some years ago and secured a marriage record while there.  I don't know if there is another "actual" record, but this record didn't even include the maiden names of the mothers; it included just the date, addresses, sponsors and incomplete parents names  I got Richard's mother's maiden name through his brother Edward's marriage record, held in the same year as R & B's but at a different church. I don't think that St Andrew's is the baptismal location for either R or B. 

We were always told that Bridget lived with an Aunt in Dublin, but who knows.  Is it possible to see who is listed as residing at that Molesworth residence at the time of the marriage?  As to the Lutterell name: There are some "otter-like swimmers" among my parents grandchildren, so maybe the Lutterell "otter" aptitude came through after all.  When I mentioned the Jackson connection in my post (the last sentence that you said that you didn't understand), I was simply stating that Bridget may have had some connection to the Dundalk area because her relatives, Jackson cousins in USA, originated from the area just north of Dundalk.  I was thinking through my posting-fingers, sorry!

Next email:

I was delighted to read the information that you enclosed in this email referencing the possible baptism of "Brigid" (I will try to keep my spelling, "Bridget" for my own consistency right now.) and the reference to possible siblings Margaret and Catherine.  The names Margaret and Catherine are names repeated in this family which makes these records more interesting.  Why do you think that there is a possibility of a nun?  I don't know what work Richard was doing in England (1890 Census), but my older sister thought she heard something about working with silver and I was told by someone who is British and  who lives near that area that it is known for silver.  I have only read that Richard was a stone mason (death record), and a sculptor (grandmother's marriage license). You asked if I thought that your findings were "my lot", I believe that it  is a distinct possibility. Still intrigued as to why no one was named after Patrick Hughes in the family that followed.

I am very, very grateful for the time that you have given this matter.  Thank you, Pat. Your traveling recently in the same areas as members of my family probably traveled causes me to smile.

I honeymooned in Ireland in 1971 with my Italian American husband, Michael.  I enjoyed your country immensely, although we did have a auto mishap.  We forgot and drove on our side of the road instead of yours and drove head long into a much heavier Morris. We traveled the rest of our vacation in a slightly wrinkled Renault. Unfortunately, I didn't do genealogy at the time, so I missed out of retracing my family's footsteps.  I have other Irish relatives on my mother's side; they have been challenging, too. (My DNA is 55% Celtic.)  I have to gather more information stateside before I can investigate their families in Ireland. I have little information on them and know with names like Patrick McLaughlin and Annie Flanigan that I am in for it!  I would love to visit your country again and would have a whole new appreciation.

Have a blessed day,

Judy (I hope that I wasn't inappropriate using my and your first names.  Americans tend to be informal.)

Hi Judy no problems here with any sayings or things we may not understand for local language reasons. I was in the US a lot in the 1960s and 1970s and into the 80s. The reason for the nun link is if htere was a nun then she may have been in the Sisters of Mercy who ran the orphanage so they had influence to get them in. Bridgits birthday is given as 9th February. Can be seen here https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0462 It is free but can only be searched by event, year and month and read them all, so she was baptised on the 19th I think. Civil records are here, search name and event, read through page to find, free but must sign in. https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ Select civil records. 

Jacksons below interesting site rushing but will return tonight. http://www.thesilverbowl.com/index.html

Pat

HI Judy again, I attach the two death certs, if you post your other family on Ireland XO in where you think they are from and someone will pick it up, hopefully we have a volunteer in the area but someone normally gives an answer anyway.  There are a lot more free information online now. Griffiths done between 1848 and 1864 giving head of house is here http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…

I visited the US as I was in the merchant navy before settling in Louth. I am a retired male living in Louth, I specify male as a few people have wondered as Pat can be used by both sexes. I am away tomorrow and for a lot of the week, doing an evening class in genealogy as it happens, for beginners, enjoying it. My site email is stpeters@irelandxo.com if you want to use it instead of waiting 24 hours to see if there was a reply. Also St Peter is a non de plume and I am not really a saint, to avoid confusion!!!!

Regards

Pat

Judy third post Scarletina is Scarlet Fever, I had to Google and other half confirmed. 

Regards

Pat

Thank you, Pat, for the attachments.  When you actually see the documents, it breaks your heart.  The poor parents had to endure so much. Enjoy your class!  

Judy