Murphy family Wexford

Attached Files

Hello Barry,

I am not a descendant of the Murphy and Sheils family, but after reading your post at the Ireland Reaching, I wanted to see what information I could find about Richard Murphy and Elizabeth Lizzie Sheils before they moved to Liverpool with their sons James and William.

To do this I first looked for Richard and Lizzie’s civil registration marriage record at the free irishgenealogy.ie website. I found their marriage record showing they were married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of Wexford on 18 June 1892.

A copy of the original civil registration marriage record for Richard and Lizzie is the last entry in the register at Number 199, which you can access at:
https://tinyurl.com/4behvnfh

At the time of marriage Richard was a bachelor and Elizabeth Lizzie Sheils was a spinster. The record shows that at the time of marriage Richard was 25 years old and Lizzie 24 years old. Richard’s occupation was “Sailor.” His residence at the time of marriage was Faythe, Wexford. His father is James Murphy, whose occupation was “Shipwright.”

Lizzie occupation was, “Domestic Servant.” Her residence at the time of marriage was Upper George Street, Wexford. Her father is William Sheils. The marriage record shows that William was a “Pensioner,” but I could not make out what type of pensioner because of the handwriting.

The clergyman who married Richard and Lizzie was “Edward Aylward, Adm.” Adm is the Latin abbreviation for “Admodum,” which means “Very.” Admodum actually refers to the Latin, “Admodum Reverendus,” that is, “Very Reverend.” Thus the full title and name of the Wexford Chapel priest who married Richard and Lizzie would have been the Very Reverend Edward Aylward.

You can see R.C. Clergyman Edward Aylward in the 1901 census of Ireland living in Blackwater, Castle Talbot, Wexford. In the household with him are two servants. The census comes from the National Library of Ireland website and can be accessed at:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Castle_Talbot/…

The marriage record for Richard and Lizzie also shows the witnesses to the marriage were James Doyle and Ellen Duggan. The marriage was recorded in the Wexford Registration District on 20 June 1892 by the Registrar, Thomas Pierce.

Irish Catholic marriages traditionally take place in the bride’s parish. At the time of the marriage in 1892, Lizzie Shiels was living in Upper George Street, also called George Street Upper.

Lizzie’s parish church is not mentioned by name in the marriage record, but the church closest to her Upper George Street residence is the Church of Immaculate Conception, Rowe Street, Wexford Town.

A Google Map shows that the church is a short walk from “Upper george’s Street”: https://tinyurl.com/2p887uwx

For a Google Street View of the Church of the Immaculate Conception from the corner of Lower John Street and Rowe Street, see: https://tinyurl.com/2p8dp9ur

Information from the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website notes that Church of the Immaculate Conception was opened in 1858. For more information about the church, and for a slide presentation of the exterior and interior of the church, go to the Buildings of Ireland link at: https://tinyurl.com/yepcyjrp

The Church of the Immaculate Conception was constructed at the same time as another church in Wexford Town called the Church of the Assumption in Bride Street. Both churches were designed by same architect, Richard Pierce. This means there is the possibility that the Church of the Assumption is the Wexford Parish church where Richard and Lizzie were married in 1892. A Google Map shows that the Church of the Assumption is less than a mile south of Upper George’s Street: https://tinyurl.com/2arxs23u

The Church of the Immaculate Conception and the Church of the Assumption are known as the “Twin Churches.” For more information about the churches go to the Wexford Catholic Parish link at: https://wexfordparish.com/twin-churches/

The description of the churches from the parish website link also explains how the “Wexford Sailors” contributed to the building of the Twin Churches.

Also see the Buildings of Ireland website link for the Church of the Assumption at:
https://tinyurl.com/bdfb3cw7

Concerning Richard Murphy, the marriage record shows his residence was “Faythe,” which I couldn’t access on Google Maps, but did find on maps from the townlands.ie website link.

Faythe on the townlands.ie map is highlighted in blue, and borders the townland of Tacumshane on the north. See the attachment.

A Google Map shows the townland of Tacumshane is 11 miles south of Wexford Town: https://tinyurl.com/3sew6esd

I next wanted to see if any residents named Murphy and Sheils were recorded in an Irish property tax record called Griffiths Valuation, leasing property in the townland of Faythe, Civil Parish of Tacumshin.

Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for Faythe was completed by the year 1853. Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who paid to lease property, such as land, houses, and outbuildings. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman collecting the rent for the owner. This middleman was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the Ask About Ireland website link at:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

Griffiths Valuation shows there are only two occupiers recorded in the townland of Faythe. They are William Murphy and Patrick Connor. There is also a vacant house recorded in the valuation. See the Griffiths Valuation attachment.

William Murphy is shown to have leased over 57 acres of land valued at 47 Pounds and 10 Shillings. He also leased a house and offices, which were valued at 2 Pounds, for a total valuation of 49 Pounds and 10 Shillings. He would have paid a percentage of this value toward the tax. The Immediate Lessor for his property was Joseph Goff.

Offices in Griffiths Valuation refer to outbuildings such as barns, stables, blacksmith shops, piggeries, etc.

Griffiths Valuation also shows that William Murphy was the Immediate Lessor for property the vacant house sat on. He was also the Immediate Lessor for the property that Patrick Connor leased. In this case it is likely that William Murphy is the middleman looking out for the property, rather than his being the owner. Joseph Goff may not have been the owner of the property William leased either. If Joseph Goff or William Murphy had owned the property, Griffiths valuation would have recorded the ownership by the words, “In Fee.” In Fee is not recorded for the three properties in Faythe.

To the left of William Murphy’s name is the map reference 1 a. This refers to the location of William’s lease on a map that accompanied Griffiths Valuation.

The map for Griffiths Valuation can be accessed from the Ask About Ireland website. The map is attached. You can see that map reference 1, which is William Murphy’s lease, covers almost the whole townland of Faythe. Toward the bottom left of the map you’ll see five little box structures. One of these is the house that William lived in. The others are the outbuildings.

Map reference 2 located in the eastern section of Faythe is very small, and is where Patrick O’Connor leased his property.

The map shows that the townland of Faythe is 60 acres, 3 roods, and 27 perches in size. William Murphy had leased 57 acres, 2 roods, and 12 perches in Faythe, which means he least most of the town.

As a point of interest, Faythe is the English spelling for the Irish word Feagh or Fiodhach, meaning, “A Woody Place,” according to a book by P.W. Joyce called, “Local Irish Names Explained,” page 47, published in Dublin by M.H. Gill & Son of Upper Sackville Street. The book is not dated. See the attachment.

In 1924 Sackville Street, Dublin, became O’Connell Street, in honor of Daniel O’Connell, and so “Local Irish Names Explained,” would have been published prior to 1924.

In addition to the townland of Faythe, there is also a road in Wexford Town called, “The Faythe.”

Griffiths Valuation shows a James Murphy living in an address of 153 The Faythe, Townparks, Town of Wexford.

I’ve attached two copies of the Griffiths Valuation page for James Murphy recorded in The Faythe. One is an enlarged image. The Faythe and other nearby streets were located in what was then the civil parish of St. Michaels of Feagh.

The valuation shows that James Murphy leased a house, yard and garden from an Immediate Lessor named Jane C. Boyce. The garden was 10 Perches in size and valued at 8 Shillings. A perch is 272.25 Sq. feet in size. 10 perches is equal to 2722.5 square feet, or 0.0625 of an acre.

James’s house was valued at 3 Pounds and 7 Shillings. The total valuation for the property was 3 Pounds and 15 Shillings. James would not have had to pay a tax on this lease, as only those leases valued over 5 Pounds were subject to the tax.

Just four occupiers above James Murphy, at 149 The Faythe, you’ll see an entry for Ellen “Sheil.” This entry shows that Ellen is the Immediate Lessor for “part of” a vacant house, and the Occupier of “part of” a house, along with a yd (yard) and a gar (garden). The Immediate Lessor for the part of the house Ellen lived in was James C. Boyce, who is the same Immediate Lessor for the property Michael Murphy leased. The total value for the part of the house, yard, and garden that Ellen leased was 3 Pounds and 10 Shillings.

Unfortunately, there is no way to tell, just from Griffiths Valuation alone, if the James Murphy and Ellen Sheil living in 149 and 153 The Faythe, Wexford Town, are in your direct Murphy and Sheils lines, though there is the possibility they are.

Today, part of The Faythe road is divided, with south bound traffic on the right fork and north bound traffic along the left fork. The two sections of meet just south of the Swan and Bar Café, also called the “Wicked Swan.”

See the Google Map of Wexford Town showing the locations of Upper George’s Street, the Church of the Immaculate Conception, and the Swan Bar and Café along The Faythe at: https://tinyurl.com/mwxc9v5z

The Google Street View, looking north, shows The Swan located in The Faythe road, near where the road separates the north bound/south bound traffic: https://tinyurl.com/26mh876x

THE TITHE APPLOTMENT BOOKS

An agricultural land record known as the Tithe Applotment Books shows that James, Nichs (Nicholas), and George Murphy had leased property in the townland of Faythe, civil parish of St. Michael’s. The Tithe Applotment Books also show that a farmer named Joseph Murphy leased property in West Faythe, civil parish of St. Michael’s.

Earlier, in Griffiths Valuation, you saw that Faythe was in the civil parish of Tacumshin, County Wexford. This is an indication that the townland of Faythe crossed the borders of two different civil parishes in County Wexford.

Another indication of this is a Tithe Applotment Book entry for Wm (William) Murphy, who leased property in the townland of “Faithe,” civil parish of Tacumshin.

The Tithe Applotment Books are available to search for free at the National Archives of Ireland website at: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

The Tithe Applotment Book index shows the date of the record for James, Nicholas (Nicholas), George, and Joseph Murphy recorded in Faythe and West Faythe, Civil Parish of St. Michael’s, is 1833.

The Tithe Applotment Book index for William Murphy in Faithe, civil parish of Tacumshin, is also dated 1833.

The index for James, Nicholas, and George Murphy in Faythe, and Joseph Murphy in West Faythe, can be found at: https://tinyurl.com/2p869u9t

The index for William Murphy in Faithe can be accessed at: https://tinyurl.com/yckasd5c

Clicking on the first or last names of any of James, Nicholas, George, or Joseph, will take you to copies of the original Tithe Applotment Book entries for them. But, the tithe pages are so faded as to be almost unreadable.

The only tithe record that is legible is the one for Wm Murphy in Faithe. His entry is at the top of the record which you can access at:
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625720/00…

The Tithe Applotment Books show that Wm Murphy leased over 37 acres of “Arable,” land in Faithe. His tithe amounted to 6 Pounds, 14 Shillings and 4 and one-quarter pence, which went toward the upkeep of the Church of England.

Also recorded in the Tithe Applotment Books in Faythe, civil parish of St. Michael’s for the year 1833, are Luke and Anthony “Sheel.” Sheel would be an alternate spelling for Sheils. See the Tithe Applotment Book indexes for Luke and Anthony Sheel at: https://tinyurl.com/bm5hhjkb

Paying tithes to the Church of England was not popular with Irish farmers in the 32 counties of Ireland, as these farmers mainly belonged to the Catholic Church.

Only those farmers who paid to lease property were recorded in the Tithe Applotment Books. Members of their families were not.

For more information about the Tithe Applotment Books, go to the following links from the National Archives of Ireland:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/about.jsp
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/aboutmore.jsp

Going back once again to the marriage record: Richard was 25 years old and Lizzie 24 years old when they married in 1892. Richard’s age of 25 in 1892 means he would have been born in 1867. Lizzie’s age of 24 in 1892 mean she would have been born in 1868.

I don’t always take at face value ages in marriage records. I also don’t trust the accuracy of a person’s age with one-hundred percent certainty, in census records or in death records either. To find if a person’s correct age in a marriage or death record, I attempt to locate their birth or baptism records, provided these records exist.

I next wanted to compare Richard and Lizzie’s age in the 1892 marriage record with their ages in the 1901 census. Based on your information that they went to Liverpool, I looked for them in the 1901 census of England at Ancestry.com, and found Richard, Lizzie, and their sons James and William, living in an address of 1 Evans Street, Liverpool.

Richard is shown to be a 39 year old “Sailor A.B.” You’ll see an X through the A.B. This is not the census clerk making a mistake, but one of those annoying tally marks you see in English census returns. A.B. stands for “Able Body.” Richard would have been an Able Body Sailor. The census also shows that Richard was a worker (as opposed to an employer, or a person owning his own business), and that he was born in Ireland.

The census shows that Lizzie was 38 years old and born in Ireland. Richard and Lizzie’s sons, 7 year old James and 5 year old William, were also born in Ireland.

There are also other residents in the Murphy household. One is a “Visitor,” 25 year old John Murphy, a Marine Fireman. He was a worker born in Ireland. He may have been Richard’s brother or cousin.

Also in the household is 75 year old “Visitor,” Fanny Marlin, who was born in Ireland. She is followed by 44 year old Robert Marlin, a Sailor A.B. and a worker born in Ireland.

The last person recorded in the household is 11 year old Peter Cullen, born in Liverpool.

The 1901 census is attached to this reply. The Murphy household begins in Column 561.

If Richard was 39 years old in 1901 he would have been born in 1862. At age 38 in 1901 Lizzie would have been born in 1863.

In the 1911 census, attached to this reply, Richard Murphy is shown to be a 48 year old “Dock Labourer” born in Wexford, Ireland. His wife Elizabeth is 48 year old and born in Wexford, Ireland. The census line for Elizabeth shows that she and Richard had been married for 19 years as of 1911, and in that time had two children, with 1 child still living, and 1 child who had died. The child who died would have been William.

The 1911 census also shows that Richard and Elizabeth’s son James is 17 years old, and is employed as a “Shop Assistant” for a tailor. James was born in Wexford, Ireland.

The bottom right of the census form shows that Richard signed the census, with an address of what appears to be 5 in 1 Court Cazneau St Liverpool. The 1911 census is attached to this reply.

William Murphy would have died between the time he was counted in the 1901 census and the year 1911. I found what I believe to be his death index at the FreeBMD website. The index shows that William Patrick Murphy’s death was recorded in the Liverpool Registration District in the September quarter of 1907. At the time of death he was 11 years old. See the index below:

Death September Quarter 1907

William Patrick Murphy
Age: 11
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 32

Source: FreeBMD
____

William’s full death record can be found in Volume 8b, Page 32 of the death register held by the General Register Office (GRO) in Southport. If you do not already have William’s death record, I can send you instructions about how you can order it online from the GRO.

The 1911 census shows that Richard and Elizabeth Murphy are 48 years old, placing their year of birth in 1863.

In comparing their ages in the 1892 marriage record with their ages in the 1901 and 1911 census enumerations, Richard and Lizzie could have been born in Wexford anywhere from 1862 to 1868.

If they were born after 1863, there is a chance there are civil registration birth records for them. The Irish government began the civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denominations in 1864. The exception to this was that Protestant and civil marriages, but not Catholic marriages, were recorded by the government beginning on 1 April 1845.

The 1892 marriage record shows that Richard’s father was James Murphy, a shipwright, and that Lizzie’s father was William Sheils, a pensioner.

The one drawback in looking for their birth records is that I didn’t know beforehand the first and maiden names of their mothers. This means that any birth records I found would be circumstantial evidence, rather than direct evidence that the births were those of James’s parents.

I looked for Richard and Lizzie’s individual birth records for the years 1864 to 1868 at the free irishgenealogy.ie website,

I began with Richard.

I didn’t find a birth record for him, but uncovered what may be his combination Catholic Church birth and baptism transcription at the Find My Past (FMP) website. The record shows the birth of a Richard Murphy took place on 18 October 1863 and that his baptism was the following day on 19 October. His father is James Murphy. His mother is Ellen Furlong.

Richard’s baptism transcription can be accessed after you register with FMP. Registration is free: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F6987331

Attached to the baptism transcription is a link that takes you to a copy of the original Wexford Parish baptism register from the National Library of Ireland. Go to: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634139#page/198/mode/1up

There are two facing pages of the baptism register. Richard’s baptism is the last entry at the bottom of the right-hand page. You can enlarge the register by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

The baptism record shows his godfather was James Hunt. I couldn’t make out the first name of Richard’s godmother because the handwriting in the register is faded. Her last name looks like it could be Clancy.

Richard’s combination church birth/baptism record aligns with his age of 48 in the 1911 census in Liverpool. But again, without knowing beforehand the first and maiden name of his mother, this record is circumstantial evidence for Richard Murphy, the father of James Murphy in your line.

Barry, in your research have you come across the name Furlong?

ELIZABETH “SHIELDS”

I didn’t find a baptism record for an Elizabeth or Lizzie Shiels anywhere in County Wexford for the 1860s. I also looked for her baptism before and after the 1860s to cover all eventualities, but again did not find it.

I did locate what may be her civil registration birth record however, which shows than an Elizabeth ‘Shields” was born in a location called Red Sheard, on 20 July 1864. Her father is William Shields, a “Pensioner” residing in Red Sheard. Elizabeth’s mother is Margaret Shields, formerly Shields. Her mother and father had the same last name. William reported the birth to the district registrar, Andrew Furlong, who recorded the birth in the Wexford Registration District on 14 December 1864. Elizabeth’s birth is Number 165 in the birth register at: https://tinyurl.com/2p8wb4b2

The 1892 marriage record for James Murphy and Lizzie shows that her father’s name was William and that he was a “Pensioner.” This is why the 1864 birth record may refer to the Elizabeth Shiels in your direct line of descent.

In going through the birth records at the irishgenealogy.ie website, I also found that William Sheils and Margaret Sheils had twins named William and Thomas. In these birth records the last name is spelled Shiels rather than Shields, as is the case with Lizzie’s 1864 birth record.

William and Thomas were born in Red Sheard on 22 January 1868. Their father William’s occupation is shown to be “Pensioner.” He was residing in Red Shears at the time of the births. He also reported the births to the registrar, Andrew Furlong, who recorded the births in the Wexford Registration District on 29 January 1868. William and Thomas’s birth are the first and second entries in the register at Numbers 144 and 145: https://tinyurl.com/2p87p9tv

I didn’t find a location in County Wexford called Red Sheard.

A book by Patrick Weston called, “The Origin and History of Irish Names of Places,” Volume 1, Page 420, published in 1871 by McGlashan & Gill, Upper Sackville Street, Dublin, relates how the word “sheard,” is the West-English term for “gap.” He goes on to state that, “There is a gap in the mountain of Forth in Wexford, which…is also called Reed-shearde, or Red-gap, by the inhabitants of Forth and Bargy.”

It sounds like this description pertains to the Red Sheard where the family were living when Lizzie was born in 1864 and when William and Thomas were born in 1868.

A Google Map shows that Forth Mountain and Bargy are 12.4 miles apart. See the map at: https://tinyurl.com/2p92ap6h

Red Sheard, is somewhere between Forth Mountain and Bargy, as implied in the section of the book by Patrick Weston quoted above.

BACK TO UK RECORDS

I found the index for James Murphy’s marriage to Frances Dempsey, as well as a copy of the original St. Joseph’s Catholic Church, Liverpool marriage record at Ancestry.com.

The couple were married on 14 January 1917. The first name of James’s father is recorded in the Latin, “Ricardi,” last name of Murphy. Frances’s father is not recorded in the index, which follows:

Name: Jacobum Murphy
Marriage Date: 14 Jan 1917
Marriage Place: St Joseph, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Ricardi Murphy

Spouse: Franciscam Dempsey

Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 JOS/2/2

Source Information
Ancestry.com. Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1933 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.
____

A Copy of the original St. Joseph’s marriage record is attached to this reply and is hand-written in the Latin. The marriage record shows that James had been living at 134 Victoria Square, and that Frances was living at 5 Peel Square. Her father is Thomas Dempsey.

One of the witnesses to the marriage is Gulielmus Jones, whose address I couldn’t make out except for the word that appears to be “Acacia.” Gulielmus is the Latin for William.

The second witness is Martha Welch of 16 Grosvenor Street.

The first name of the priest who marriage James and Frances is Joannes, which is the Latin for John. His last name is hard to read but may be Pensur. The capital R after his name may stand for “Rector,” that is, the rector of St. Joseph’s Church in Liverpool.

According to the genuki.org.uk website link, St. Joseph’s was constructed in 1845 and was located in Grosvenor Street. Grosvenor Street was the residence of witness Martha Welch as noted above

The genuki.org.uk website link also states that St. Joseph’s Catholic Church was demolished in 1979. For photos, more information, and a map of the location of the former St. Joseph’s Catholic Church, go to: https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Liverpool/StJoseph

I also located the civil registration marriage index for James Murphy and Frances Dempsey at the Free BMD website, which shows their marriage was recorded in the Liverpool Registration District in the March quarter of 1917. Their marriage is in Volume 8b, Page 100 of the General Register Office marriage registers:

Marriage March Quarter 1917

Frances Dempsey
James J Murphy
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 100
____

Also at FreeBMD I found the birth indexes for nine Murphy children whose mother’s maiden name was Dempsey, and whose births were all recorded in the Liverpool Registration District. These children include Elizabeth, Richard, James T., Francis, Norah, John, Desmond, Christopher, and Martin K. Murphy.

The first names of the parents are not recorded in the indexes, but I believe the nine children belonged to James Murphy and Frances Dempsey. The indexes are below:

Birth December Quarter 1917

Elizabeth Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 54
____

Birth December Quarter 1919

Richard Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 51
____

Birth September Quarter 1921

James T Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 55
____

Birth December Quarter 1922

Francis Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 46
____

Birth June Quarter 1924

Norah Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 79
____

Birth March Quarter 1927

John E Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 114
____

Birth December Quarter 1928

Desmond Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 8
____

Birth March Quarter 1930

Christopher Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 26
____

Birth June Quarter 1935

Martin K Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 42
____

CONCLUSION

To further your search for relatives and descendants of Richard Murphy and Elizabeth Lizzie Sheils, and their son James, you might want to consider posting a query to the Lancashire, England General Message Board at Ancestry.com, as Liverpool is situated in Lancashire.

James and his wife Frances may still have grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren living in the Liverpool area, or in the UK in general, and may possibly read your message if they are interested in their family history and Irish ancestors.

The Ancestry.com message board for Lancashire, England can be found at: https://www.ancestry.com/boards/localities.britisles.england.lan.general

Also, if all nine children of James and Frances Dempsey Murphy lived to adulthood and in turn had married, and had children who also married, there are probably a lot of people in the UK today, and perhaps in other countries, who carry the Murphy and Sheils genes, as well as the Murphy and Dempsey genes.

I found through additional research that Frances Dempsey’s mother was Frances McCoy, and so the McCoy surname could be added to the gene pool.

Barry, have you thought about DNA testing to see if you share the same genes with others who may be descended from the Murphy and Shiels families, originally from County Wexford, Ireland?

In your own research have you found that your Murphy ancestors had at one time lived in the townland of Faythe in County Wexford? Faythe appears to be the ancestral home of your Murphy ancestors, and possible your Sheils ancestors as well. Earlier, you saw that both Murphys and “Sheels” were recorded in 1833 as leasing farmland in Faythe in the agricultural land record known as the Tithe Applotment Books. That may be more than just a coincidence.

With Best Wishes for the New Year,

Dave Boylan
Tuesday, 18th January 2022

SOURCES

irishgenealogy.ie
National Archives of Ireland: 1901 census of Ireland
Google Maps
Google Street Views
National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland
https://wexfordparish.com/twin-churches/
townlands.ie
Ask About Ireland/Griffiths Valuation
Book: Local Irish Names Explained, by P.W. Joyce
National Archives of Ireland: Tithe Applotment Books
Anncestry.com: 1901 and 1911 England census enumerations
FreBMD
General Register Office (GRO), Southport, England
Find My Past
National Library of Ireland
Book: The Origin and History of Irish Names of Places, Volume 1, by Patrick Wilson
Anncestry.com
genuki.org.uk

Hi Dave, thank you so much for taking the time to research and reply to my posting, it's really appreciated. You obviously have a lot of experience researching genealogy as you appear to have found very quickly what took me weeks to achieve.

I have most of the information you mention saved on Ancestry.co.uk, but as you mention without certain details a lot of it becomes circumstantial. With the forenames and surnames I'm researching being so common it only adds to the problem. James Joseph Murphy was my paternal grandfather who died when I was approx 7rs old, so I only have vague recollections of him, and my fathers side of the family were not very close and I have no contact with any of them.

There are only one or two descendants resaearching the family on Ancestry and the information they have is sketchy or obviously incorrect, so unfortunately not a lot of help.

My father was John Eric Murphy, and again because of the lack of communication with his family and probably my lack of interest at the time did not pass any information on to me, oh what I'd give to be able to go back and spend some time with him.

I recently applied to Findmypast to get a print out from the 1921 census as they have the monopoly on it, but dissapointingly the result which I purchased was badly transcribed and obviously incorrect.

I received an acknowledgement from them admitting that because of the rush to get the census transcribed there have been mistakes but they have made no attempt to to rectify this or supply a corrected transcription.

The biggest problem I have is not being able to find when Richard and Elizabeth actually came to Liverpool as this would help considerably. I know that a Richard and Elizabeth Murphy were in Liverpool on the 1901 and 1911 census returns, along with children James and William, who as you mentioned had died before the latter census. But whether this is the Richard Murphy I am looking for is not certain. Another problem being the lack of the mothers surname on some documents which you alluded to.

Once again thank you for your efforts, and if you are able to point me in the right direction regarding any of these issues it would be most appreciated.

P.S. I have come across the name Furlong and have it listed on my family tree. If you are on Ancestry yourself you are welcome to view the tree listed as Barry Murphy Family Tree.

Thanks once again 

Barry.

Hello Barry,

Thank you for your reply and additional information.

After you had mentioned that your dad was John Eric Murphy, I looked for his GRO death index at the FreeBMD website and found one entry. This entry shows that your father’s death was recorded in the Liverpool Registration District for the March quarter of 1981, with the additional information that he was born on 7 March 1927. Your father’s death is recorded in Volume 36, Page 284 of the General Register Office death registers:

Death March Quarter 1981

John Eric Murphy
Date of Birth: 7 March 1927
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 36
Page: 284
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Have you obtained your father’s full death record from the GRO to see what additional information it holds?

Based on the information from the death record index above, I looked for the GRO birth index for John Eric Murphy or John E. Murphy for the March quarter of 1927, and located the same birth index as shown in the last reply, showing that his mother’s maiden name was Dempsey. The index is below so that you don’t have to go back to the first reply to retrieve it. Below the birth index is also the March quarter 1917 marriage index for Frances Dempsey and James J. Murphy from the previous reply:

Birth March Quarter 1927

John E Murphy
Mother's Maiden Name: Dempsey
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 114
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Marriage March Quarter 1917

Frances Dempsey
James J Murphy
Registration District: Liverpool
Volume: 8b
Page: 100
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The civil marriage index above agrees with the St. Joseph’s Catholic Church, Liverpool marriage record I had found at Ancestry.com, which gives the exact date of the marriage as 14 January 1917, rather than just the quarter of the year (March) in which the marriage took place. The church marriage record shows that Jacobum’s father is Ricardi Murphy, that is, Richard Murphy. This record is below:

Name: Jacobum Murphy
Marriage Date: 14 Jan 1917
Marriage Place: St Joseph, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Ricardi Murphy

Spouse: Franciscam Dempsey

Source Citation
Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 JOS/2/2

Source Information
Ancestry.com. Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1933 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.
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Have you obtained your dad’s birth cert from the GRO in Southport to see if his father is James J. or James Joseph Murphy, and his mother Frances Dempsey?

Likewise, have you obtained the GRO marriage record for James J. Murphy and Frances Dempsey, which will give you the first names of their fathers, as well as their father’s occupations. If James’s father is recorded as Richard, it will agree with the St. Joseph’s Catholic Church marriage record.

You’ll also want to see if the occupation of James’s father in the 1917 civil marriage record is dock labourer, as that was his occupation recorded in the 1911 census. Richard’s occupation changed from the 1901 census, which shows he was a sailor.

I also located a GRO death index at FreeBMD for James J. Murphy. His death was recorded in the Liverpool North Registration District for the March quarter of 1959. He died at age 65:

Death March Quarter 1959

James J Murphy
Age: 65
Registration District: Liverpool North
Volume: 10d
Page: 365
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James Murphy, son of Richard Murphy and Elizabeth Sheils was, as you know, born in Patrick’s Square, Wexford Town, on 2 September 1893. What this shows is that James J. Murphy in 1959 would have turned 66 in September of that year.

James’s birth record from the irishgenalogy.ie website can be accessed at the following link: https://tinyurl.com/3e2xcw4e

His birth is number 195 in the register.

Unless I’ve cited the incorrect GRO birth, marriage, and death indexes in this reply, and the previous reply, so far all the information points to Richard Murphy and Elizabeth Sheils as being your great grandparents and their son James as your grandfather, as you indicated they might have been.

This takes the research you have accomplished out of the realm of circumstantial evidence, and more into direct evidence. But it will still be important to obtain from the GRO the complete 1917 civil marriage record for James Murphy and Frances Dempsey, to see if the occupation of James’s father Richard is “dock labourer,” which is Richard’s occupation recorded in the 1911 census. Richard’s occupation in the 1917 marriage record may also state he was a retired sailor.

It’s always best to have two different vital records that show the same information in genealogical research, such as a church marriage record and a civil marriage record for the same couple.

On another note, in the 1892 marriage record for Richard Murphy and Lizzie Sheils, as well as the birth records for James and William, and the 1901 British census, Richard’s occupation is listed as “Sailor.”

Barry, have you done any research on this aspect of your family history?

I found an entry at the FamilySearch website showing that a merchant seaman named Richard Murphy was born in County Wexford, and that his year of birth was 1864. In turn, the FamilySearch website cites the Find My Past website, and the National Archives in Kew, Surrey for the information about Richard Murphy in the merchant seaman record called, “United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records, 1835-1941.” See the index below:

United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records, 1835-1941

Name Richard Murphy
Event Type Military Service
Event Place United Kingdom
Birthplace Wexford
Birth Year 1864

Cite This Record
"United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records, 1835-1941," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC7K-HZ3 : 5 December 2014), Richard Murphy, ; From "Merchant Navy Seamen1835-1941," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing BT 112-116, 119-120, series BT349, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.
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I believe Find My Past has Merchant Navy records, though I’m not sure how extensive those are as I don’t have a subscription to Find My Past. I don’t believe however, that Find My Past will have a Merchant Navy record’s collection as extensive as the records found at the National Archives in Kew.

Have you thought about visiting the National Archives to see what records you can find about Richard Murphy in the Merchant Navy/Mercantile Marine Service? The National Archives has guides concerning Merchant Navy records. See: https://tinyurl.com/bde7x9mb

Concerning passenger lists, there are passenger lists available for those ships arriving in England and Ireland, as well as leaving England and Ireland, but these records are only for those vessels arriving to the UK and Ireland from foreign ports, or leaving from UK and Ireland to foreign ports.

If someone arrived in England from Ireland, they would not have been arriving from a foreign port, as Ireland in the 19th century was considered part of the British Empire.

In spite of that I searched for Richard, his wife Elizabeth, and their sons James and William in two collections at Ancestry.com. One of these collections is called "UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960," and the other, "UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960."

I didn’t find the Murphy family recorded in either of these collections.

I hadn’t accessed your Barry Murphy Family Tree at Ancestry.com until after I had found the other records you see in this reply, as I didn’t want to be influenced by
the information your uncovered. But it does look like we found many of the same records.

Barry, I really do think you are on the right track, with Richard Murphy and Elizabeth (Lizzie) Sheils being your great grandparents and their son James, your grandfather, which also confirms your Wexford roots.

If you order the 1917 civil marriage record for James Murphy and Frances Dempsey, can you let me know what occupation is recorded for James’s father, Richard?

That’s too bad about the 1921 census from Find My Past. I’m waiting for it to be available at Ancestry.com.

Thank you again for writing Barry,

Dave

Attached Files

Hi Dave, thanks again for all your help, it can be really frustrating when you hit a brick wall and have no one to ask. Unfortunately I seem to be the only descendant, apart from one young girl who appears to be a great granddaughter of my dad's brother Desmond, who is researching the Murphy side of the family. Her tree is quite sparse and some of the contents are a bit misguided, so not a lot of help.

I do have a copy of the marriage certificate for James Murphy and Frances Dempsey and will attach a copy. I have searched Ancestry electoral registry records for anything on Richard and Elizabeth Murphy but they seem to have vanished after the last census in 1911 and as I mentioned the 1921 info I obtained from findmypast was no help.

I have searched for death records of both of them but again without much success, this is partly down to the inconsistency of dates so I have a couple of possibles but am unable to confirm without purchasing copies of every one.
Thanks once again it really is appreciated.
Barry

You're welcome Barry, and best of luck with your further research.

Dave

Hi Barry

Just came across your post. I may be someone you might be looking for. I’m possibly a descendant of James.  My great grandfather was a James Murphy from Wexford. My Nan, Margaret Murphy moved to the UK when she was 15. She was one of 8 children I believe. I also know one of her brothers died as a child.  There are connections with Furlongs and Lancashire. 

Hi Jen, sorry for taking so long to reply but I keep forgetting to look in on IrelandXO and didn't see your post till recently. My grandfather was James Murphy he was born in Wexford along with his brother William. His father was Richard Murphy and his mother Elizabeth (Lizzie) Sheils. The family came to Liverpool UK  sometime between 1895 and 1900 as they are listed o the 1901 census living off Scotland road. 

James Murphy (my grandad) married Frances Dempsey ( my gran) , they had nine children, Elizabeth (Lilly), Richard, James, Francis, Nora, John, Desmond (Desy), Christopher (Christy), and Martin. My dad was John Murphy..  I can't find much about my grandads family in Wexford as Murphy is probably the most common name there.. He must have had brothers and sisters but I can't verify this. His brother William died aged about 11or 12 in Liverpool.

There are records showing that my grandads gran may have been Ellen Furlong, who had several children with James M Murphy, one of whom may have been my grandad James, but I'm struggling to link them all together as the records are sketchy.

Let me know if any of this makes sense or sounds familiar to you.

Barry.