Nolans - Templemichael, Longford.

No marriage certificates, no death certificates, nothing exists for my great-grandfather's immediate family in Ireland that I am aware of.

https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/longford/templemichael-longford/ free games

Margaret Nolan, daughter of William Nolan & Mary Carr was baptised on 10 July 1848 (not 1845) in Longford RC Parish:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632371#page/141/mode/1up

Gerald Nolan (born 1857) appears in the North Lanarkshire, Scotland - Poor Law Applications and Registers 1849 - 1917 on the following dates:

04 October 1887 (indexed as 1884), 30 July 1894 (as Charles Nolan/Holan), 15 January 1909, 14 February 1910, 18 January 1912, 02 October 1914 (under his wife Ann Campbell or Nolan), 18 March 1915 (under his wife Ann Campbell or Nolan)

His brother James Nolan (born 1852) appears in the same records on the following dates:

04 January 1886, 14 June 1888, 12 March 1889, 10 September 1894 (under his wife Catherine Burns or Nolan or McKeoun), 

I found a possibility for your William Nolan's death in the following Death Certificate from 1894:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

His age at 75 in 1894 indicates a possible birthyear of 1819 which would tie-in with the marriage year of 1844 for your William Nolan.

William Nolan & Mary Carr's marriage would have most likely taken place in the old Chapel which stood at the rere of St. Mel's Cathedral, as although the foundation stone was laid in 1840, the Cathedral didn't open for worship until 1856, the delay no doubt due to the Great Potato Famine of 1845 - 1850.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mel%27s_Cathedral

I also found two possible baptismal records for your Mary Carr baptised in Longford RC Parish as follows:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632370#page/167/mode/1up

Baptised 15 April 1821, Mary Carr, daughter of John Carr & Mary Flanigan

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632370#page/191/mode/1up

Baptised 08 August 1824, Mary Carr, daughter of Eugene Carr & Margaret McGinnis (McGuinness)

Finally, I found Elizabeth Nolan Kiernan, daughter of Gerald Nolan, Longford residing at Stafford's Yard, Longford Town, County Longford in the 1911 Census:

https://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002909078/

Her Marriage Certificate to Thomas Kiernan from 1906 is linked as follows:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

Hoping this is helpful,

Thanks so much for all this David.

Another bit of the family added to with the baptism of Elizabeth. Who is being mentioned under her name? Is it the officiating Priest?

I had the record of William Nolan dying in 1894. I also had the possibility of Mary being the daughter of Eugini & Margarita McGinnis. Interesting to see other possibilities. What I tried to do was use Griffith's Valuations to find Carr families that lived in the same Townlands as any Nolan families. Guesswork, I know.

Lack of information about my grandfather's siblings (except for Gerard) led me to the conjecture that the family left as others ... walking together along the Royal Canal to Dublin then a ship to Liverpool. I did find a William and Mary Nolan in Liverpool but they had only three children - with matching names but totally wrong ages. What also led me to think this happened was that my grandfather's little sister left Wishaw for Canada under a scheme known as the British Home Children. The family were that poor and living conditions were that cramped she was being given a chance of a better life. She ended up in Canada. Her descendents were to prosper.

My grandfather's nephew would leave his poverty behind a few years after his Aunt. Both left by way of Liverpool. Coincidence?

My great-grandfather's family lived in great poverty as you discovered. The last time that he applied for Poor Relief from the Kirk in Scotland was 2 days before he died. They were awarded 6/- His wife Catherine was to marry a Peter McKeon 2 years later. He came from Killoe - his father also Peter was married to a Maria Dooris. He and Catherine Nolan had 3 children (one died in infancy). He drifted in and out of the family's life. My grandfather became the head of the household. Peter died on the 17th March 1937. He was living in a Model - a hostel for unemployed men. He had probably been sleeping off the celebrations in the pub across the way.

My great-grandfather;s brother Gerard married Anne Campbell in Longford and a witness indicated was a James Nolan (my great-grandfather?) Had he come back over to Longford from Wishaw?

Gerard's family too, when settled in Wishaw, lived in the utmost poverty. Two of his many children died in infancy. Some of his girls ended up in Falls River, Massachusetts. He died in a yard in the town in 1914.

His daughter Elizabeth had been baptised in Longford on the 12th February 1881. I will need to check Scotland's census for the years the family were in Scotland. Maybe she had been left in Longford with Anne's family. Her father was John Campbell and her mother was a Mary Spooner. They lived in Bog Lane, I think.

Thanks again David for taking the time to help further my research. Maybe this year i will get over there. I passed through Longford many years ago in my VW camper van. I hadn't known then of my great-grandfather. Part of my mother's side of the family came from Kildorrery in County Cork. 

That's a sponsor's name under Margaret Nolan's name in her 1848 baptismal record: Eleonora Hunt

Rev. Bernard Geraghty Adm (Administrator of the Parish, equivalent to a Parish Priest, only the Parish Priest for Longford RC Parish was the Bishop of Ardagh & Clonmacnoise who resided in the Parish) performed Elizabeth Nolan's marriage in 1906.

Patrick Carroll & Bridget Doherty were witnesses to this marriage.

I see a Mary Carr recorded as an occupier at Aghadegnan in my book containing an index to Griffith's Primary Valuation of County Longford. She is the only Carr recorded in Longford RC Parish and could therefore have been the Mary Flanigan Carr, mother of Mary Carr (1821) mentioned in my last reply.

I have come across a significant amount of emigration from County Longford to Scotland, where they setted in the latter half of the nineteenth century, with the men working predominently in the coalmines. Indeed, a granduncle of mine from Longford Town, Francis Mahon, emigrated to Scotland c1902 and lived in Wishaw and surrounding areas. His son from his first marriage came back to live with his grandparents in Longford Town when his father married a second time. I have seen some records of Longford emigrants in Scotland returning home for marriages etc.

It was not uncommon for families to leave one of their children behind with one set of grandparents whilst the rest of the family emigrated, and again I have come across a number of instances of this practice.

Hoping this helps further,

Thanks again David for those extra names mentioned, in the baptismal record of Margaret Nolan; and the Marriage record of Elizabeth Nolan.

You indicate that it was not uncommon for folk from Longford Town to migrate to Scotland. Do you have any idea as to the preferred route that they took?

Elizabeth Nolan, Gerard and Anne's daughter, was their 3rd child and she had been baptised on the 12th February 1881 in Longford Town. Next after her was Anne who was baptised sometime in 1883 in Longford Town also. Sometime between then and the 7th May1886 when Thomas was born in Wishaw, they had moved to Scotland. The next Scottish Census of 1891 only mentions 4 of the first 5 children - Elizabeth is missing; she must have been left in Longford Town. Perhaps in the care of grandparents? There were 2 visitors mentioned in the same Census; a John Campbell (19) and an Elizabeth Campbell (24), both single and I presume Anne's younger brother and sister.

The Mary Carr I found had land just north of the present day city centre on what is now the R198, near the corner of Demesne Lane (I have lost a more accurate position). If I recall correctly it was just a piece of land with a byre or barn. Again, I can't remember the exact wording in the description. Interesting that you think it may have been Mary Flanigan Carr.

There is still a strong presence in Wishaw of descendants of the many Irish who settled all those years ago.  

The route from Longford Town could have been travelling to Belfast, which was a more industrious city than Dublin at the end of the 1800s, and onto Scotland. Alternatively, they could have travelled by boat along the Royal Canal from Longford to Dublin, by ship to Liverpool, and onwards to Scotland.

I could not fine Anne Nolan's birth certificate from 1883 on the available records online.

As we suspected, I found Elizabeth Nolan, aged 18, at her grandmother Mary (Spooner) Campbell's house at Killashee Street, Longford Town in the 1901 Census:

https://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001038343/

Also recorded at this house were Elizabeth Nolan's aunt Catherine (Campbell) Hanley and her 2 children, Elizabeth and Margaret.

I found Elizabeth Nolan's grandfather John Campbell's death certificate as follows:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

30 November 1884, Killashee Street, John Campbell, married, aged 45

Informant: Martin Campbell, son of deceased, present at death, Longford

Martin Campbell was aged just 11 when his father died and Martin Campbell's birth certificate is as follows:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

29 October 1873, Martin Campbell, son of John Campbell (Labourer) & Mary Campbell formerly Spooner, Bog Lane

Finally, I cheked the full details for mary Carr in the 1854 Griffith's Primary Valuation and found the following:

Mary Carr occupier of a Herd's house, office and land (04 Acres - 00 Roods - 06 Perches). The Immediate Lessor was the Earl of Longford

A Herd's house is normally a smaller residence than that of a farm house and used by the herdsman who looks after the animals for the owner.

Brilliant David. So was that the same Mary Carr I described as living near Demesne Lane? I note Martin was born in Bog Lane. This was where Gerard's first child Mary had been born on the 7th April 1878 - his father-in-law's house John Campbell. Finally David, does the local library have family research records / facilities to use? What arrangements have to be made to utilise them? Do you need to pay? Once again thank you for what you have had time to do on my behalf.

Yes, Mary Carr was recorded at Aghadegnan which is opposite Demesne, either side of the Battery Road in Longford Town.

Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates are available on the following website

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Longford RC Parish Records are available on the following website:

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0146

There is a Local Studies section in Longford County Library Headquarters, Town Centre, Longford Town:

https://longfordlibrary.ie/archives-and-local-studies/local-studies/

https://longfordlibrary.ie/archives-and-local-studies/genealogy/

Access is free, and you could contact archivist@longfordcoco.ie with any specific queries you may have or if you wish to make an appointment to visit. Martin Morris is the Archivist and is a personal friend of mine. You may have to pay the cost of photocopying printed matter or printing from microfilm records.

HI David. Sorry to bother you again but I have discovered Ann Nolan, the daughter of Gerard Nolan. & Annie Campbell, was married twice. The first time in 1904 to a Patrick Burns ....

.... and again in 1920 to a John Mallon - both she and John's previous spouses were deceased.

Ann's death certificate illustrates perfectly how difficult it is a times. One example is Ann's mother is noted as being Annie Gamble.

Perhaps Ann Nolan was born, or baptised, in 1884, not 1883. I can find no record of her being born in Scotland.

Thanks so much for the research links and I was wondering if there are any particular army records I can access. I am presuming that the name Campbell has military references somewhere. Was there a British Army barracks in Longford Town?

By the way, if there is any help I can give re. research here in Scotland, I would be only to happy to help.

I see only one other Carr mentioned as an occupier in Longford (Templemichael) RC Parish in the 1854 Griffith's Primary Valuation i.e. John Carr at Aghareagh Townland, so he is also a possibility for Mary Carr (born 1821)'s father John Carr who married Mary Flanigan.

Anne Nolan definitely had a difficult life, marrying at 20, her husband dying young, and she herself passing away at the age of just 39 from T.B.

I could not find any birth certificate for Anne Nolan in Longford in the period 1882 - 1885 and so it probably went unrecorded.

Gamble sounds like Campbell and the Gamble surname was given by her son. The Gamble surname may have been given by mistake or may have been misheard by the registrar.

I see 49 Campbell occupiers mentioned throughout County Longford in my 1854 GPV index book, including a number in Longford RC Parish.

Yes, there was an Artillery Barracks (Lisbrack, Longford Town) and a Cavalry barracks (Church Street, Longford Town) at either end of the Battery Road, Longford Town:

https://www.longford.ie/en/visit/explore-the-past/sean-connolly-barrack…

Anne's life was terrible and so, I have come to learn, were the lives of others - in both the Nolan families from Longford Town. It is very sobering to think this.

The possibility of the registrar detailing the wrong name is probably the correct assumption David. I believe that the registrar misheard the surname and mistakenly wrote Gamble in the certificate. The same thing had happened with my great-grannie's father - James Burns. He was from Armagh and it took me a great deal of time to find his baptism record there, as he was born James Byrnes. I believe that in submitting details for the Scottish Census, he was misheard and recorded as Burns. Both cases may have been due to their Irish accents. 

Another case was the son of my great-grannie after she had married the second time. Her daughter, Mary Nolan, took her young step-brother, Patrick, to the local school on his first day. When she approached the headteacher she was greeted by, "Not another Nolan!!" He was in fact Patrick McKeon but from that day on he was 'officially' Patrick Nolan and a Nolan he was to remain. Interestingly all his children had the middle name McKeon (or variations in that spelling).

I read part of the link concerning Longford and when I get time I will read further. The part relating to the military presence in the town was interesting. It talks of the plantations in the early 17th century. Were these plantations of Scots? Or were the Scots mostly confined to the northern counties of Ireland? I was musing that perhaps the Campbell family had military roots but now it may be because they were part of the plantation. Also the Spooner family's story goes back several generations (military connections?) The name doesn't seem to be Irish. I have a possible link for Henry Francis Spooner (Spunner), baptised in Shinrone, County Offaly in 1770.

Forgive my meandering. Thanks again David.  

Newtownforbes was named after the Forbes Family who were landlords in the area just north of Longford Town. They were Scottish in origin. Have a look at the following webpages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Arthur_Forbes,_1st_Baronet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Granard

Many Scottish Presbyterian families settled in County Longford in the 1600s/1700s settling in the area around Ballinalee and in the area between Newtownforbes Village and Longford Town where there was an area known as Scotch Quarter. So the Campbells could have been part of that settlement.

I see the folowing relevant record in the Longford RC Parish records:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632372#page/73/mode/1up

Marriage, 18 July 1857, John Campbell & Mary Spooner

witnesses: John Kelly and Margaret Feeney

I also see a possibility for Mary Campbell's baptism as follows:

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632371#page/18/mode/1up

Baptism, 28-01-1831, Mary, daughter of Henry Spooner & Catherine Henrey (Henry)

sponsors: Patrick Charlaton (Charlton) & Margaret Higgins

Interestingly, I see Catherine Spooner mentioned as an occupier at Bog Lane, Longford Town, County Longford in my 1854 Griffiths Primary Valuation index book. This is the same address for the Campbells & Nolans from Longford Town.

davidleahy@eircom.net