Looking for Birth records from Cappawhite.
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- Looking for Birth records from Cappawhite.
We have just discovered that my great, great grandmother, Ann Ryan, was from Cappawhite. She arrived in Australia in 1856 on board the "Ben Nevis" and was described on the shipping manifest as a 20 year old Roman Catholic Dairymaid who could read. The documents name her parents as "Tim" (assume Timothy) and Ann, and that her father was dead but her mother remained in Cappawhite. She is also noted as having a sister, Margaret, already in Australia.
Three years after arriving in Australia (and working at 'Dunheved' which was a large country estate) she married my gggrandfather, Edmund Hogan who, (we believe at this point) was from Cashel or nearby.
We would love to locate some Birth/Baptism records relating to Ann if possible, along with any other evidence of this family
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. With thanks,
ColleenTuesday 22nd Nov 2022, 03:48AM
Message Board Replies
I attach details of record years for the parish of Cappawhite.
You can access those at email@example.com - National Library
Due to the number of "Timothy Ryan" you will need the surname of Ann's mother.
Thank you SO much. I did not expect any replies, never mind such a quick one.
Unfortunately we have no way of finding the surname of Ann's mother. Her Marriage and Death records here in Australia just show her mother as being 'Ann Ryan' and her father as a 'Farmer' without even his Christian name. When we found him listed as Timothy on her shipping docs. we thought we had struck gold, but apparently not so.
It is sad that tracing Irish ancestors is so incredibly difficult. However, we will enjoy perusing the records that you have kindly made available to us and perhaps a clue might just arise.
Many thanks once again,
Attached Files1836 CAPPAWHITE BAPTISM REGISTER.png (686.29 KB)1830 CAPPAWHITE MARRIAGE REGISTER.png (258.74 KB)CATHOLIC PARISH MAP.png (240.93 KB)1835 BAPTISM OF THOMAS RYAN.png (1.45 MB)TIMOTHY RYAN IN GRIFFITHS VALUATION.png (597.79 KB)1829 TO 1841 ORDNANCE SURVEY MAP.png (1.94 MB)
A search of the Cappawhite Catholic Parish baptism transcriptions at the Find My Past (FMP) website did not reveal a baptism for Ann Ryan or her sister Margaret. If Ann’s age of 20 is correct in the Ben Nevis manifest, she would have been born and baptized circa 1836, though I looked for her baptism for five years before and five years after the year 1836, in case her age is not accurate in the manifest.
I didn’t find the baptisms for any children of a Timothy Ryan and Ann (no maiden name supplied) in the Cappawhite Catholic Parish registers. Nor did I uncover a Cappawhite Catholic Church marriage for Timothy and Ann.
I also looked for the Cappawhite baptisms of any children whose parents’ first names were Timothy and Ann, with no last names provided for the parents, but again, without success.
As you saw from the attachment kindly provided by McCoy, the Cappawhite baptisms begin on 7 October 1815, and are available to search at the National Library of Ireland website to 13 November 1878.
There are gaps in the baptism registers however. As an example, attached to this reply are the months available for the 1836 Cappawhite baptisms, showing that the months of August, September, October, November, and December are missing.
Cappawhite marriages are available from 13 February 1804 to 6 October 1878. There are also gaps in the marriage registers. Using the year 1830 as an example, marriage registers for four months are missing, including February, March, July, and August. See the attachment.
There is also the possibility the Timothy Ryan and Ann, and the baptisms of their children Ann and Margaret, took place in another Catholic parish, and possibly in another county. The Cappawhite Catholic Parish sits on the border with County Limerick.
For example, this Catholic Parish Map from the National Library of Ireland, attached to this reply, shows that Cappawhite is surrounded by the parishes of Doon and Castletown; Kilcommon; Anacarty and Donohill; and Sologhead.
The Catholic Parish of Doon and Castletown is actually in County Limerick. The Catholic Parish of Sologhead is partly in County Tipperary, and partly in County Limerick. The border of the counties on the map is represented by dashes ---.
Of those Catholic parishes surrounding Cappawhite, I found the FMP baptism transcription of a child named Thomas Ryan whose father was Timothy and mother Ann. This baptism took place in the Anacarty and Donohill Catholic Parish on 9 December 1835. Ann’s maiden name is Carroll. The residence of the Ryan family is “Mohora.
You can access the baptism transcription after establishing a free account with FMP. Go to: https://tinyurl.com/2p82w9tz
A copy of the original baptism record for Thomas Ryan from the National Library of Ireland, is attached to this reply. In the register you’ll see three baptisms recorded on 9 December. The baptism for Thomas is the second 9 December in the register, which you can enlarge for better viewing. The first name of Thomas’s godfather is Patrick. I’m not sure about Patrick’s last name, but it could be Macklin. The godmother is Mary Ryan. To the right of Mary Ryan’s name is a word that looks like “Mohora.” The actual selling of this townland is “Moheragh.”
A Google Map shows that Moheragh is 5.1 miles northeast of “Cappa White.” https://tinyurl.com/37evz8mz
Colleen, in your research concerning Ann and Margaret Ryan, have you come across the surname Carroll, perhaps as godparents to Ann and Margaret’s children?
I also found one marriage transcription at the FMP website for a Timothy Ryan and Anne in a Catholic parish that borders Cappawhite. This transcription shows that the marriage of Timothy Ryan and Anne Ryan took place in the Kilcommon Catholic Parish on 15 January 1826. Timothy’s residence at the time of marriage was Anacarty. Anne’s residence was Hollyford.
See the transcription, which notes that the alternate name for the Parish of Kilcommon was Hollyford: https://tinyurl.com/4dhe3vua
A copy of the original marriage record is difficult to read because of the handwriting. See the attachment. But from what I could gather, Anne Ryan lived in a town in the Parish of Hollyford, and not Hollyford itself. I could not tell exactly what that townland was, except the last portion of the name of the town looks like “hill,” resembling something like the town of “Piferhill.”
It also appears that the banns of marriage were dispensed with on the three Sundays preceding the marriage. The dispensation was given by the “very Rev. Doctor” whose name I could not decipher. The reason the banns were dispensed with is not recorded.
Named in the marriage record are Ed and Dan Ryan, who may have been the witnesses to the marriage The marriage register is signed by E Walsh, who would have been the priest who married Timothy and Anne.
A Google Map shows that Anacarty is 2.7 miles southeast of Cappagh White: https://tinyurl.com/5n8h7t9x
In going over the towns near Cappagh White and Anacarty on the Google Map, I located a town called Piperhill, north of Anacarty and Cappagh White. This may be where Anne Ryan was living at the time of Marriage. Piperhill is just south of Hollyford Village, as you’ll notice from the Google Map: https://tinyurl.com/y6ucdz3k
I don’t know if the Kilcommon/Hollyford Catholic Parish marriage of Timothy Ryan and Anne Ryan refers to the marriage of your Ann Ryan’s parents.
There is a record of a Timothy Ryan living in Cappawhite, though I don’t know if this Timothy Ryan was your Ann and Margaret Ryan’s father.
Timothy is recorded in an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for the Town of Cappaghwhite and surrounding townlands in the Civil Parish of Toem, was completed by the year 1851. The year 1851 was actually the date the valuation was printed, which means the men who visited Cappaghwhite (called “Valuers), may have actually come by the town the year before to tabulate the tax values of individual owners and occupiers of property in town.
Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who paid to lease property, such as land, houses, and outbuildings. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman collecting the rent for the owner. This middleman was called the “Immediate Lessor.”
You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the Ask About Ireland website link at:
Griffiths Valuation for Timothy Ryan in the “Town of Cappaghwhite,” is attached to this reply. He is the third Occupier listed under the Town of Cappaghwhite, and shows that he leased a House, yard, and small garden from an Immediate Lessor named De Vere Hunt, Esq.
No value was attached to Timothy’s yard and small garden, but his house was valued at 1 Pound and 10 Shillings, which is also the total value of his lease. He would not have been required to pay a tax on the property, however. Genealogist John Grenham explains why:
“The individual in economic occupation of the property was responsible for payment of the local taxation based on Griffith’s, with one exception: tenants with a holding valued at less than £5 annually were exempt, but their landlord was liable for the tax. This liability was a powerful incentive for landlords to get rid of smaller tenants in any way they could and certainly contributed to the wave of evictions that took place throughout the second half of the nineteenth century.”
Timothy Ryan did not lease any appreciable amount of acreage, which may be an indication he was not a farmer but may have been a shop keeper, or may have been in one of the trades, such as blacksmith, farrier, wheelwright, etc. Your information shows he was a farmer, and that’s why I’m not sure if the Timothy Ryan in Griffiths Valuation refers to your ancestor.
In Griffiths Valuation you’ll notice that occupiers named Jeremiah Ryan and James Ryan also leased property in the Town of Cappaghwhire from De Vere Hunt, Esq. James is shown to have leased two properties, one a house and yard and the other, just a house. These Ryans were probably related to Timothy, but the relationship is not recorded.
An Ordnance Survey Map from the 1829 to 1841 time period shows Cappagh White and the location of the National School and the R.C. Chapel. The map is attached to this reply and is from the GeoHive website.
Street names are not labeled on this map, but Main Street is the street running horizontally through town. This is where Timothy Ryan leased a house, according to Griffiths Valuation. The National School and R.C. Chapel are off Chapel Street, running north from Main Street.
The Ordnance Survey Map shows that fields are all around Cappagh White, and so there is the possibility that Timothy had leased a house in town, but worked as a farm labourer for one of the farmers in the area. But, there is no way of knowing with complete certainty, what Timothy’s occupation was.
You can see Main Street and Chapel Street on another Ordnance Survey Map from the late 19th or early 20th century, also attached to this reply. This map however, shows the National School is north of the Fair Green, whereas in the older map the school was south of the Fair Green, next door to the R.C. Chapel.
The following link will take you to a Google Map of Cappawhite and Upper Main Street: https://tinyurl.com/yeyr2sf7
Running north from Main Street is Church Street. This was the former Chapel Street where the R.C. Chapel was located. The old chapel building is still there, but not in use. The Cappawhite National School is in the same location, or near the same location as depicted on the Ordnance Survey Map from the late 19th or early 20th century.
Here is a Google Street View of the old R.C. Chapel and graveyard in what is now Church Street: https://tinyurl.com/2p8vvvvf
The graves are likely those of the several priests of the church who served the parish over the years.
According to the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website, the old Cappawhite Catholic Church was constructed in 1826. For more information and a slide presentation of the exterior of the church, go to the Buildings of Ireland link at: https://tinyurl.com/3a7nucum
The National School depicted in the older Ordnance Survey Map stood where the Cappawhite Garda Station (Police Station) is depicted in a Google Street View capture from 2011. See: https://tinyurl.com/yckvdrwh
If Ann and her sister Margaret grew up in Cappawhite, they likely would have attended the old R.C. Chapel and the nearby National School, which at the time was located next door.
The following Google Street View shows the location of the National School, present-day Church Street, formerly Chapel Street: https://tinyurl.com/3zy9yvtd
If you go back to the Google Map of Cappawhite, you’ll see the name of the present-day Catholic Church is the Church of Our Lady of Fatima, located off a road called “The Square,” southwest of Main Street
This Google Street View shows the modern-looking Church of Our Lady of Fatima, The Square: https://tinyurl.com/5db5h5t9
On another note Colleen, have you found the ship’s manifest entry, as
well as the marriage and death records for Ann’s sister Margaret? These records may possibly reveal the maiden name of Margaret’s mother Ann.
With Kind Regards,
Find My Past (FMP)
McCoy's reply to Colleen, dated 22 November 2022
National Library of Ireland
AskAboutIreland: Griffiths Valuation
GeoHive: Ordnance Survey Maps
Google Street Views
National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland
An Garda Síochána: Police Service of Ireland
Dave Boylan, you are a SAINT and a TREASURE! Our family cannot believe the time and effort you have spent on our behalf and we are truly grateful.
We have so far been unable to locate Ann's sister Margaret who was said to already be in Penrith NSW. We currently have a pool of no less than 48 possible Margaret Ryans arriving in Sydney within a suitable period, and at least 8 in the Penrith area....what a task!!
Following your advice, we have sent for Baptism Certs. for Edmund and Ann's children in case Margaret is a God Parent but we are not hopeful. Following their marriage in NSW in 1859 they moved from Penrith to the Bathurst area (several hundred miles away in a much less settled area) in order to obtain and farm their own land. I am assuming that the God Parents will be neighbours/friends from the new area.
One new pleasing clue though...we noticed that Edmund and Ann's first-born son was called Matthew Timothy. Matthew was Edmund's father and we have concluded that Timothy is in honor of Ann's father ie. a bit more evidence that the 'Ben Nevis' Ann Ryan is our ancestor as we did not have her father's name of Timothy until we recently got the enhanced shipping docs.
Many thanks for your kind efforts once again,
You're welcome Colleen, and many thanks for your kind reply. It is very much appreciated. With Best Wishes, Dave