Catherine Keating

You did not include the extract from the Australian birth cert...

Thanks Eileen. It looked like it had loaded - I'll try again. The filename of the JPEG is showing but not the image. When I hit the 'Browse' button it takes me to the right file but I don't see an upload button anywhere. Obviously doing something wrong. I'll keep working on it. For what it's worth, the name looks like Bourges but I don't see anything like that under either the civil or Catholic lists. It definitely starts with 'B' and the 'ges' at the end is reasonably clear but in between is pretty much a guess. As I said, it may be what the registrar thought he had heard. Another of the birth certificates records the parish also but it was written by the same registrar and looks the same. In this case the informant was the 15 year old eldest child of the family (my grandfather) who was literate but he would have been relying on what he had heard from his mother. Unfortunately, all the other birth certificates don't record a parish, just Tipperary.

John

The Parish is Burgess.  Some records say Burgessbeg.

These are the Burgess records.

Youghal Arra, Killaloe - Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI
Margot

Yes it is Burges or Burgess, as some spell it, a townland in Tipperary. Burges is in the Electoral Division of Tubbrid, in Civil Parish of Whitechurch, in the Barony of Iffa and Offa West, in the County of Tipperary

1901 census http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tubrid/Burges_We… This is a Keating family in Burges west 1901, do any of the names sound familar? What are the children's names for Catherine and William's marriage, it is difficult to track without some more detail

Another Keating family http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tubrid/Ballygarr…

"               "            "      http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tubrid/Roosca__B…

                                     http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tubrid/Roosca__M…

                                     http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tubrid/Scartana/…

                                     http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tubrid/Scartana/…

                                     http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tubrid/Tubbrid/1…; These are the Keating families for the Tubrid area 1901 census, have a look and see if any fit with your family bearing in mind this census was 30/40 years after Catherine emigrated.

http://shawsavillships.org/empress%20of%20the%20seas.htm  Empress of the Seas.

vhttps://www.morningtonpeninsulamagazine.com.au/arsonist-destroys-empres…; Empress of the seas destroyed by arsonist in 1861

Thank you Eileen and Margot for all information - much appreciated. I consulted a map and realised I was looking at two different places, and it took me a while to work out the contradiction. I think I have it right now. Burgess is/was a variant name of the Youghal Arra parish near Nenagh, and also Burgess/Burges is the name of a townland/location near Cahir!

Which one did Catherine come from? The question on the Australian birth certificate asks for the name and maiden name of the mother, age and birthplace. On both certificates it is given as Burgess Parish, Co Tipperary, Ireland. On the balance of probabilities I believe she probably came from the parish rather than the townland. Thanks, Margot, for the parish records. I haven't had a chance to go through them but will do so in the next day or so. If I can find a record of her baptism around 1840, that will solve the problem.

Eileen, thank you for the Keating census records from 1901 in the Burgess townland/location. Catherine's children were John, James, Daniel, Ellen, Mary Ann and Margaret. One of the records contains an Ellen and a Margaret, possibly a clue but far from anything indicative.

My Moore third cousins in Doon/Limerick (we connected only 20 years ago) had heard stories of somebody going to Australia in the dim, distant past. In the 1800s the family would have been quite well off with a 115 acre landholding at Coolnamona, begging the question of why William migrated. They had also heard a couple of versions of why he left. One was that he was going out with a girl deemed to be below their station in life and was packed off to Australia. It is hard for me to judge, but it would seem that both these locations are somewhat distant from Doon making it less likely they would have known each other prior to emigrating, but that is speculation and I doubt we will ever have a definite answer.

Again, thank you both for all your help.

John

I think I can now safely say that Catherine came from the Burgess townland, not the parish. I went through the parish baptism records from 1838 to 1842 and the Keating name doesn't appear even once, while other family names crop up constantly either as parents or sponsors.

By contrast there were lots of Keatings living in the townland in 1901. That must be the Burgess she was referring to on the birth certificates.

I now know where to focus future research - again, thank you both for your assistance.

John