Hugh Cleary (b 1775 Ireland), Patrick Cleary (b 1816 Ireland) and Edward Cleary (b 1837 Manchester)

Hi Sara

The only birth/baptism record of Hugh Cleary 1770 + - 10 years on www.rootsireland.ie/ is Hugh CLERY 1770 Cavan

rootsireland charges to view each record but it will have the parish and MAYBE his parents' names

I searched 1816 + - 20 years for Cleary children with father Hugh and got 14 matches but none in Cavan or Mayo!

There are no Patricks Thomases or Hughs but there are lots of Marys - none anywhere near 1820 though and none in Cavan!

There is a marriage of Hugh Cleary 1813 in Wicklow (maybe his wife was from there?)

http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/quis.php?page=1&confirmPageView=Y

I assume you know that there is a Hugh Cleary in the 1841 English Census on ancestry; he is aged 60 so born 1781 living alone in Manchester

The Tithe Applotments 1823-37 & free online have 2 Hugh Clearys both in Tipperary 1825/6 

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Cleary&firstname=Hugh&county=&parish=&townland=&search=Search

Col

Hi,

Mary Cleary and Hugn Duffy are my 2nd g/grandparents (maternal). The little I have on Mary is based around Manchester and Birmingham and has not given me her actual place of birth unfortunately, if I do find it I will surely be back to pass it on to you.

Hi,

I'm very excited to receive your reply as I am yet to meet or chat with anyone related to the Cleary family. 

I'm from Perth, Australia and started my family history journey as my Pop (Donald Cleary), who is 91 this year, did not know anything about his ancestry as his mother died when he was very young and his father (Robert Cleary - Edward Cleary's son, who was Mary's nephew) couldn't care for him.  Pop had no idea his family had moved from Ireland to England, so it's been quite an interesting journey, although rather fruitless.  

The information I've listed above, I believe to be fairly accurate and I've also found another brother of Patrick and Mary's, Edward Cleary (1811).

I'd love to know where you are from and if you agree with the information I've found. It's a shame that we are both yet to determine where in Ireland we hail from, but if you have any other family information, history, stories or rumours, I'd love to hear them. 

Take care. 

Sara

Hi Sara,

Great to meet you, you are the first family Cleary I have spoken to!. Unfortunately I dont think I will be of much help, as you have way more information than I, am interested to know where you found all that?.

My searches;

Ancestry;

  Big expense for little help, with the surname Cleary being problamatic in its frequency in Ireland making it hard to determine the right one.

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk ;

  Free, very helpful, and links to the correct BDM certs. This site is being constantly updated so try again later if you cannot find a person, there is also a Birmingham version/ and all British areas I think.

Facebook page;

Manchester and Lancashire family history society; Not used this yet. Birmingham history page, Have posted for Mary and Hugh Reilly, nothing so far, but they may not have had children so no decendants, I am keeping an open mind to kids pre marriage which was around 8 years after the death of her first husband, a long time to go without a male wage and mouths to feed.

Google search;

  Desperate open google search on Hugh, led me here to you.

You have convinced me Hugh probably died in Manchester, ( I have him on 1851 census living with Mary but was not sure if he had returned to Ireland ), I will search lancashireBMD for him again, (this is where I found Mary's second marriage which led me to the only Birmingham census she appeared).  If Hugh's info has been transcribed then I will get his death cert, hoping it has his place of birth. Birth certificates give address of birth, marriage certs give address at time of marriage.

I think our problem lies with census record taking; At that time, like Mary/Hugh Duffy, a great many households could not read or write so in those cases we are relying on an official too tired to ask or add a place name and may have put Ireland due to an obvious accent!, I have seen some names misspelled, once you add an Irish accent you can see why!.

Being a Mancunian myself, and knowing a little of the social history, I can tell you that the areas Mary and her family lived were not the best, in Mary's case there is a couple of back/BK streets which usually indicate poor housing or cellars, her best accommodation may have been St Marys RC church, Mulberry St, Manchester, known as the Hidden Gem, still standing off Deansgate, which was also where her first marriage took place. Do you have Manchester addresses for her father and/or brothers?.

Your original post has been really helpful to me, with it I am hoping I can pay for it by finding more info for you and especially your dad, who it seems comes from a line blessed with longevity ...given Hugh Cleary lived beyond his 95th birthday at a time when male life expectancy was around 47 years!.

My email address will be available to you, but think coninuing to use this site may attract passing trade, as your original post did with me.

Very best wishes to you and your Dad, look forward to hearing from you.

PS; 'Casety' may be Casedy/Cassidy/Casey?. Irish accent problem?, usefull to have a leprechaun in your family search toolbox!.

Liz

Hi Liz,

I used Ancestry to obtain all my info.  It is expensive, so I've only joined when they have specials and my local library has free access also, but it's hard for me to get there these days. I'm not a member of ancestry currently, as I only pay when I have time to search. 

I got lucky with my info. Found Edward in Manchester on Ancestry after purchasing Robert Cleary's marriage certificate from Australia.  Which led to other census finds and marriage certificates. Two of the Cleary brothers married sisters and on some of the family marriage certificates, brothers and sisters, like Mary, were witnesses which linked them all together.

I'm of the opinion, that Mary and Hugh Reilly didn't have any children, well, not that I can find. 

My Edward was living with his parents (Patrick and Margaret) in Manchester in 1841, but then he's living with his uncle Thomas in 1851 and I can not find the family again. Perhaps they moved back to Ireland?  If the parents passed away, I can't find any of their children apart from Edward again. 

I saw that Hugh senior lived with Mary for a time, but I think his age was noted incorrectly and as such, I may have found a death certificate for him, but I haven't purchased it yet. I was under the impression that the death certificates don't necessarily include place of birth or too much other useful info, like parents names, etc because it depends on what the informant noted down. Do you know of this is the case?

I have not had any success with finding any records from Ireland at all  

Happy to share what I have, and I do have some addresses from the census'.  I don't see a personal message function to trade email addresses, etc. if you have Facebook you could look me up and PM (Sara Hayward). 

Cheers

Sara

Hi Sara,

Like you, I am do not have a subscription account with ancestry currently, so cannot search, will subscribe in the future when I have more time to spend on there. I found the Irish records too lean to be of much use and am not attracted to any particular Irish ancestry site as they seem more expensive, and of course the surnamse we search return too big a list.

Did you buy Robert Cleary's marriage cert from ancestry.com?, I made this mistake and it cost £10 more than ordering it from Manchester council, so wont do that again.

I am with you on Mary and Hugh Reilly, I do not think they had children. I was unable to find her on a census after Hugh Duffy's death, there was a Mary Duffy with a son Charles, name I was searching for, but she also had a son Luke which is why I discounted her. Problem with historic sensus is the same as today's; the information comes from the household, and I have seen a couple of instances on old census records that have the wrong details; Spouses/marriages that didnt take place until 10 years later ( living together 'out of wedlock' wasnt something made public ) questionable offspring; mother obviously too old etc, but I will not include a name until I am absolutely sure so some wait in the wings. I did not think to try Mary Reilly, she could have been living with Hugh :(

I had a similar dissappearance, maternal G/grandparents, kids turned up but parents didnt, I eventually found them in the workhouse. A lot of Irish went to Scotland, from England, but the Scots records are not helpful enough to be sure of a connection. I think many may have returned to Ireland but Ireland, at that time, was in the grip of the 'potato famine', lots of people were starving and/or evicted from their rented homes etc. Ireland was in a bad way hence the migration, but since we did not live in those times and conditions of Manchester hard to say why a return to Ireland would be attractive.

I never noticed the age problem with Hugh, maybe too exited to find him!. Have just checked Hugh Duffy's death cert, you are right it does not mention birth place, only address at death.

Madness not having PM on here, will try and find you on FB and let you know on here when I message you, my message will probably go into 'other folder'. Tried FB, but too many with your name, one poseted on a Cleary ancestry page, is this you Sara?.

Edit;

When Mary married and in Birmingham, Hugh either could not or chose not to go, so his last home was Work House For Sick And Poor New Bridge Street Manchester, see attached files.

Death 1864 Manchester ordered.

Speak soon.
Liz

Hi Liz,

Yes, that's me. I posted on the Cleary Facebook page. :)

Old Hugh still lived to a ripe old age didn't he and fingers crossed the death certificate holds another clue. I've hit a dead end again, but keep checking over time in case new records are uploaded. 

Chat over PM / email soon. 

Sara