From Bun Ciamalta Vale to New South Wales

Hi Bob

I am the nephew of Robert Kennedy. We had the book? From Bun Ciamalta Vale to New South Wales? printed this time last year unfortunately there are non left and we don?t have plans to print any soon. There might be a few left in the bookshops that we had them in, I will have a look for you. 

Tim Lee

Tim,

Thanks for looking.  My interest is in a statement that was made in the book that "Mary Kennedy married Matt Fogarty"  I think my wife's family tree ties back to Matthew Fogarty from Gurtnaskehy.  I was looking for additional information to see if it is the same Matt Fogarty.

By the way, the article you posted last year "From Toor to Loran" was fascinating and also mentions a couple more Fogartys.  Trying to make the connection.

Bob

Bob:

My Kennedys are from 'next door' to Gortnaskehy - Bleanbeg & Glencroe. I took a quick look at the Monsignor's book and he refers to Matt Fogarty as a landholder at Gortnaskhey in the 1824-27 period.  The book also refers to Matt Fogarty and Mary Kennedy as one of the marriages recorded in the 1830-40s. There is also a reference to another Gortnaskhey marriage between James Fogarty and Mary Kennedy after 1850. In the book's list of the local children there are 18 Fogartys from Gortnaskehy (8 girls & 10 boys) listed in the local school between 1875 and 1906.

There is a 2 Mar 1824 marriage recorded in Kilcommon RC between Matt Fogarty & Mary Kennedy. He was from Newport she was from Foilduff. The witnesses were Matt and James Kennedy.

James Fogarty & Mary Kennedy were married at Newport RC on 17 Feb 1864 with Jeremiah & Bgt Kennedy as witnesses.

A third marriage I also have is Patrick Kennedy & Catherine Fogarty 19 Feb 1816 Newport RC with the witnesses Pat Fogarty and Pat Kennedy (possible the parents of the bridge & groom!)

In searching RootsIreland North Tipperary online records, for Newport RC there are 8 children baptized between 1825 & 1846 where the father was Matt Fogarty and the mother was Mary Kennedy. There are another 7 baptisms from 1864 to 1877 where the father is James Fogarty and the mother is Mary Kennedy.

Hope some of this may help you make your connections  - Pat Morgan (chickasaw@aol.com)

Pat,

Thanks for the extra information.  This looks promising.  It led me to some additional research and I found a little more.  Nothing definitive that links my Matthew Fogarty from Pennsylvania to the Fogarty’s in Gortnaskehy, but I might be getting closer.

Here is part of the family stories that were written down by Matthew Fogarty’s granddaughter.   I have some other notes from her that are not always 100% accurate, so I use this as a reference. She lists 8 Fogarty brothers and sisters, in no particular order.

• Matthew Fogarty (b: c1832 Ireland) (d: c1900 Pennsylvania), married in Pennsylvania Katherine Quinn (b: Apr 1835) settled in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania.  Matthew was born in County Tipperary, Ireland on a farm outside of Thurles (Fogarty Farm).
([from Bob] I have been unable to locate Matthew’s death certificate.   I did find his will.  There is no record of his parents.  I did confirm he came to PA in 1851)
• John had a grocery store in Conshohocken, PA.  John was father of John and Mary Fogarty (John, a bachelor, lived with his sister Mary, a spinster, and ran the store until sometime in the 1940's)
([from Bob]I have located census records of John in Pennsylvania listing his DOB between.  Again, no death certificate available.)
• Michael was an Augustinian Priest in Ireland. He came to America but didn't like the way things were run at Villanova so he returned to Ireland.
([from Bob] The only record of Michael is his signature on his nephew’s marriage certificate)
• Ellen (Sister Mary Augustine, St Joseph Order) came from Ireland at age 16. She was stationed at an orphanage in Troy, N.Y.
([from Bob] Ellen’s death certificate lists her born in 1859, Newport, Tipperary and her parents as Matthew Fogarty and Mary Kennedy.)
• Jeremiah remained on farm in Thurles, Ireland.
• Edward settled in Canada.
• Another Sister (name unknown).
• Three of Matthew's sisters came out of Ireland. Two were Nuns and one married a man named Coffee. 

Here are the Fogarty’s from baptismal records in Newport with the parents Matthew Fogarty and Mary Kennedy (possibly the ones married on 2-Mar-1824).  I got these from roostireland.ie
1825 Thomas
1826 Mary
1828 Matthew (possible match)
1830 Onny
1832 Mary
1834 John (possible match)
1836 Thomas
1838 Jeremiah (possible match)
1841 Catherine
1843 Michael (possible match)
1846 Margaret
1848 Bridget
1852 Ellen (possible match)

My concern is the dates are a bit off.  For example, even though Matthew was only 2 years off, all his records in Pennsylvania as so precise, it doesn’t add up.  Also, Ellen’s birth year is listed in US Census anywhere from 1859 to 1862.  That makes the Ellen listed here 10 years younger.  That’s a wide range.  Also, what happened to Edward?  Maybe his name was Thomas Edward Fogarty.

If anyone has additional insight, please let me know.  I am checking other records in Ireland to fill in more information.

Bob

Bob;

The dates being off a couple of years would not concern me too much. A key to me would be the confidence level that Ellen (Sr Mary Augustine) who died in Troy NY is in fact the actual sister of Mathew who married Katherine Quinn. If that connection is confirmed & rock solid, Ellen's records give you a direct link back to Mathew & Mary Kennedy, Gortnaskehy, and Newport RC records. As you point out, you have good matches with Mathew, Michael, John, Jeremiah and Ellen. There are also 5 other sisters Mary, Onny, Catherine, Margaret & Bridget that could match up with the missing nun and the wife of Mr Coffey. The only wrinkle, as you point out, is Edward who went to Canada & who might be 'Thomas'!

Best of luck with your continuing search

Pat Morgan

I am looking for Kennedys in the Foilduff area.   There was a Mary Kennedy as witness to the marriage of my gggrandparents in 1825 in Newport.  They lived at Foilduff.   Bannon (Behan) and Blake.    A Winnifred was witness to the baptism of their son in 1827 in Kilcommon. .     

MaryAnne Bannon 

Hi Mary Ann

I have located the Marriage and Baptism certs 

Church Marriage Record

Date of Marriage:27-Jun-1825  Parish / District: NEWPORT County Tipperary

Husband Name: Patrick Bannon Address:Not Recorded Wife Name: Bridget Blake Address:Knockfaune

Denomination:Roman Catholic

Witness Names :Mary Kennedy and Mary Morriss

Notes:

J HEALY [PRIEST]
E ** PADDY
E *** BIDDY
****** CATH RYAN

Knockaune or Knockfune is near the village of Toor in the parish of Newport. Their are many Kennedy families in this area. Their are also many Kenndys in Foilduff and its only a few miles from Knockfune. If you have any more info to try and narrow the search to each family would be great.

Church Baptism Record

Name:Michael Bannon Date of Birth:  Date of Baptism:16-Jun-1827 Address:Foilduff Parish/District: KILCOMMON Gender:Male County Tipperary Denomination:Roman Catholic Father:Patrick Bannon Mother:Bridget Blake
Informant 1:Patrick Bannon 
Informant 2:Winifred Kennedy 

Thanks for your post hope this is of some help.

Regards

Tim Lee

Thank you so much Tim  Kind of you.    I do have those records and am trying to go back a bit further in Patricks family.   Even though the original wedding record spelled it Boynane I could not find a Patrick born to them.   They all live over the hill from Foilduff in Shallee  (Aghevir)   There are Behans there too..That priest simply had spelling problems LOL   I have all the records and it shows a Patrick born to  Patrick Behan and Mary Kennedy in 1803.  I am trying to find a connection to the Behans and the Kennedys there.    That well could be the Mary Kennedy I think is Patricks mother on the marriage document

Hello Tim & anyone this concerns.  I've seen several posts referring to the book, From Bun Ciamalta Vale to New South Wales in various places.   As are no doubt a fair number of others, I'm interested in getting a copy.  I read from one of the posts in this thread, dated 2013,  that the book was again out of print.  As 6 years have passed, is there now any possibility that it will be reprinted?   If not, are there any suggestions as to where I might be able to get one - even temporarily, i.e. a loan? 

My interest is stirred by having learned that among my maternal ancestors, there were two sets of Ryan men who married a Kennedy female.  One of the latter was Ellen "Big Nellie" Kennedy, reportedly (in some trees) from Toor / Glencroe. No birth year but based on rough calculations I'd guess in the late 1700's. She married John (Sean Donnacha) Ryan and they raised their family in Gleninchnaveigh (Glown), Upperchurch Parish, Tipperary; where descendants still live. 

I have reason to believe she's from the line that included "Long Andrew" Kennedy, as I find DNA matches with several others who trace back to that line.  Yet none of the published trees I've seen to date make clear where she fits in that line.

Of slightly related interest,  a daughter (Mary Ryan) of John Ryan & Big Nelly Kennedy married John Ryan of Coumbeg/Coumnageeha/Knockcurraghbola ,  whose parents were Thomas Ryan & Bridget Kennedy.   I have no information on Bridget K's family, so of course am curious to see if there's any relationship to these Glencroe/Toor area Kennedys.

Further to the above post, I wrongly assumed it would include my name on it.  We know what often happens when one assumes.

  Roger Hoffmann
 

Thanks to Tim for all the info.  Roger you may wish to join us in the Facebook group   Newport Tipperary Genealogy

We are a small focus group trying to make the connections for Newport area families. 

Sadly, All acknowlegements to honour Monsignor Roger Kennedy in Parishes and Churches in the Maitland Newcastle Diocese will be taken down.

UPDATE  I posted earlier about a Mary Kennedy who was mentioned in the book as living on George Blakes farm in Knockfune.

I have since found a land record stating  Widow Kennedy lived there so I am wondering if perhaps Margaret Blake that married George Kennedy 

might be the same person.  Margaret was a sister of George Blake. 

I have had trouble finding more info about them after their marriage.