Descendants of Esther Anne Kane

MonK:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Thomas Quinn married a second time in November 1900 to a widow named Mary Moore Allen. See civil marriage record and the 1901 census.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000904036/

Do you know if any of the children besides John stayed in Ireland?

Your best bet is to place a notice in a local Co. Kildare newspaper to see if you can locate any connection. We do not look for living descendants because of privacy conserns.

Let me know what questions you have.

Roger McDonnell

Thomas, widowed for a 2nd time, seems to have moved to Dublin by time of 1911 census.  Kenmare Parade, Dublin. Also in household  were daughters, Albertina, Marcella & Maria, and sons, Thomas and James.  No Valentine.  James is the same age as the Valentine on 1901 census would have been. www.census.nationalarchives.ie

I found 7 births registered to Thomas & Esther. Albertina Alice 1887;   Marcella Patricia 1888;  John 1891;   Maria 1893;  Thomas 1894;  James 1897;   Anne 1899. No Valentine. It's possible that Valentine was born elsewhere in between Thomas and James, or that he was registered as James but baptised as Valentine and known by both names.

Irish Genealogy.ie  htpps://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie

You may be able to find marriages for some of those children after 1911.

Marcella married Ernest Knibb at a registry office in Dublin 1914. Ernest was a Corporal in 57th Royal Lancers. (I think it says Royal.) His residence at time of marriage was Marlborough Barracks. Marcella's father's occupation was given as store clerk.

Albertina may have married in 1911, groom's name Kinehan.

If you research Ernest Knibb's military records, providing they survived WW2 bombing, you might discover more about what happened to Marcella and whether there were children. A regimental history will list deployments.

I couldn't see any children of either marriage on Irish Genealogy.ie  Try GRO Index (up to 1917) or FreeBMD for births registered in England.

Death of a Marcella Patricia Knibbs was registered in Middleton, Lancashire, England in 1973. Year of birth stated as 1888 which was same year as Marcella Patricia Quinn.

If Marcella was in England in 1939 she should be on 1939 Register. Date of birth was included for each person on this register. (Some people got their date of birth wrong.) 1939 Register was used as population base when National Health Service was founded in Britain after WW2. Entries were updated until 1990s. Anyone on it who was alive when it was released for public view in 21st century had their entries redacted (blacked-out). Some whose deaths were registered in Britain since 1939 register was published have had their entries made visible. So if Maecella was on 19339 Register with her children (if any) their names may or may not be redacted.

Several men called Ernest Knibbs served in WW1. Military records are sometimes under full name, sometimes under initials, so check all options. If he was killed in the war Marcella would have got a widow's pension. Leave out regiment name when searching. Regiments changed or amalgamated as required. Soldiers moved between regiments in WW1. Many documents were destroyed in WW2. Others survived, damaged,  "the Burnt Documents".

Maria Quinn and her brothers may also have married but there were too many marriages of people with those names to check. There was no marriage of Valentine Quinn on Irish Genealogy site.

Thank you so much for the prompt reply.  I will endeavour to find more information from your suggestions. I was especially interested to find that Marcella married a soldier in a registry office.  I imagine this would have been frowned upon by the family since they were Roman Catholic.  My grandfather John, named his third daughter Marcy, so imagine they must have had a special bond.  All speculation of course.  I would love to find someone who could fill in the gaps.

Kind regards,

Monica

Marcella P. Knibb was in England just prior to WW2.

Knibb(s)/Nibb(s) is a commoner name than I thought.

If you want to order her death certificate from GRO a pdf version costs £6. It will have place of death and name of informant. These pieces of information may or may not be useful, depending on where she died and whether informant was a relative or not. 

When you search for Marcella Knibb on 1939 Register leave out middle name or initial as it has been incorrectly transcribed on one site. Putting Marcella Knibb + 1888 birth year and ticking variant names box should find her. There was another person with surname Knibb in household, now deceased (not Ernest) + 1 other person whose record is locked. 

Marcella died in Middleton which is not far north of Manchester. She was in Manchester in 1939. There are some births registered in Manchester with surname Knibb(s). However the surname + variants is fairly common. Most Manchester birth registrations don't have mothers' maiden names on index. A small team of volunteers is currently adding them and hope to complete their task in 2 years time.

 Ernest may have spent time in Northern Ireland towards the end of WW1 and perhaps shortly afterwards, or Marcella may have been staying there or Ernest had relatives there. (This is speculation on my part, adding up bits of information.) There are 2 Knibb births you should look at in Northern Ireland during this period. There were also several Nibbs births in Dublin. I don't think they are on Irish Genealogy.ie website so you may need to look at other sources.

Ernest Knibb may have been on 1920 electoral register for Derbyshire. It doesn't necessarily mean he was resident there or that Marcella was staying there. It may have been address of a member of his family. There was an Absent Voters' Register compiled in 1918 for people away from home while serving in WW1. I don't know how soldiers  registered to vote after this. 1918 was first year that all men over 21 were eligible to vote. Isabella Knibb, possibly a relative of Ernest was still in Derbyshire in 1939. Ernest stated at his marriage that his father was a policeman from Derbyshire but didn't give his 1st name. His father may have died when Ernest was young.  An Ernest Edward Knibb, born about 1888 lived in Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire.  Birth of Ernest Edward Knibb was registered  in same place 1888. Charles Knibb married Sarah Ann Street there in 1876 and births of several other Knibb children were registered there. Ernest may be Nibs at a military establishment on 1911 census.

No idea when or where Ernest Knibb died. There are attestation papers dated 1939 for an artillery regiment. It's possible he joined up again for WW2 and that's why he wasn''t with Marcella on 1939 Register. That's asssuming he survived the first time round. 

Marcella's husband wasn't the only Ernest Edward Knibb(s)/Nibb(s) born about 1888, but as far as I can see there was only 1 who was born in or living in Derbyshire.

I was unable to find anything relating to Albertina after her marriage. That may be due to variations in spellings of her husband's name, Kinehan. The name might begin with C in some records and some of the vowels might vary. It's also possible that Albertina used her middle name of Alice instead. So she may be concealed under another identity.

Marcella and Ernest are on 2 public trees on Ancestry. One has 2 spouses for Ernest. He is also on a private tree.

I looked up other Knibb bm&ds registered in Ireland in last third of 19thC, out of idle curiousity. There were only 3 couples who had children. 2 fathers were soldiers. One was in 16th Lancers, married in Belfast, had a baby born & died in Dublin same year; 2 years later his wife had a son in Belfast while he was stationed in Dublin. The 3rd father was a constable in RIC who had a child with a Knibb mother.

Thank you Maggie May for the information regarding my ancestors.

I’m wondering if there are immigration records I can access to determine when my grandfather, John Quinn left Ireland.

He married my grandmother in 1917.  There first child was born in 1916 in Victoria, Australia.

Any information would be gratefully appreciated.

Kind regards, Monica

Have you investigated shipping records?

Re immigration. He was moving from one country of the British Empire to another. I don't know what documentation was required for travelling between Ireland or Britain and Australia. Look at emigration section on Irish Genealogy Toolkit website; click on genealogy on toolbar at top of home page. It doesn't have anything specific on emigration to Australia though. It says to search in country of arrival. Departure port might have been in England.

Where was John at 1911 census?