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George's daughter Rebecca and John (Lindsay) Johnston married at St. Anne's Belfast in 1954, even though at the time George and John were both employed as Writing Clerks at Randalstown. I see that there are C.of I. Churches at Randalstown (Drummaul, Duneane, and Ballyscullion. So does that mean that they were there at the time and George, Rebecca and John chose St. Anne's for some reason of their own — such as that the Rector who was Rev. Thomas Fitzwilliam Miller? Or did the Johnstons or De Winters have a historic relationship with that church?  

JEJIrishLass

Sunday 22nd Jan 2017, 08:53AM

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  • The general rule is that one of the parties should be resident in the parish where they marry. You say this marriage took place in the 1950s. After 1903, St Anne’s was a cathedral, not just the parish church for Shankill, and so would presumably be available for someone who lived anywhere in the Diocese (which includes Randalstown) if they wanted a more grand venue than the local parish church. Probably worth e-mailing St Anne’s to ask them what the rules are. 

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Sunday 22nd Jan 2017, 11:45AM
  • Sorry. The marriage was in the 1850s (6 May 1855). Typo on my part.

    JEJIrishLass

    Monday 23rd Jan 2017, 07:18AM
  • I note the revised date. I’d say it’s most likely that one or both of the parties lived in Belfast and St Anne's was their parish church. (Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church. Could she have been living in Belfast?).

    You mention that John was a writing clerk in Randalstown. I live there. It’s a very small town (population is only about 2000 today) and it doesn’t seem the sort of place to have employed many clerks. Most businesses in the town in the mid 1850s were shops or tradesmen. (Not so very different today). There were a couple of mills but otherwise I am not aware of any other employers likely to need a writing clerk in Randalstown in the mid 1800s. Whereas Belfast would have employed a lot of clerks in solicitors offices, courts, heavy industry and the 50 or so mills there.  Makes me think the 2 brothers were more likely to be working there than in Randalstown. But I could be wrong.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Tuesday 24th Jan 2017, 12:59AM
  • Thanks, Elwyn. They were Rebecca's husband (John Lindsay Johnston) and her father (George Augustus De Winter). Both were more often teachers in their employment, or even tutors, but it is possible that inbetween jobs they took on clerking. The marriage cert. says that John was a Writing Clerk, his father William Johnston a farmer, Rebecca a School teacher and her father a Clerk. I had another look. The certificate copy does say they were residents of Belfast, though other material has George as a Writing Clerk at Randalstown  the year before. 

    Oops,it was George's son John De Winter who was married to Sarah Swann at Randalstown Church on 16th May 1854. 

    Transcript from the Coleraine Chronicle:

    "At Randalstown Church, on the 16th instant, by the Rev. Dr. Hogg, JOHN DE WINTER, Esq., to Miss S. SWANN, both of Randalstown."

    Web Address:

    search.findmypast.ie/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001283%2f18540
    520%2f051

    Elsewhere the chiurch was given as Drummaul C.of I: 

    NameJohn DewinterGenderMaleMarriage Date16 May 1854Marriage PlaceDrummaul, Ant, IreFatherGeorge DewinterSpouseSarah SwannFHL Film Number101352Reference ID2:3FF16F6Household MembersNameAgeSarah SwannThomas SwanJohn DewinterGeorge Dewinter

    The IFHF record says the George was 'Clerk' and that Sarah's father Thomas Swann was 'Grocer Weighmaster' and John a Schoolmaster.

    I'll have to ask my brother why he thinks George (Clerk) was actually working at Randalstown that year. It may have been an assumtion based on his son John living there as a Schoolmaster.

    Liz

    JEJIrishLass

    Tuesday 24th Jan 2017, 04:00AM
  • Liz,

    Drummaul Church of Ireland is Randalstown, so that seems straightforward enough. I find it’s always worth looking at the original certificates on the GRONI site, as you sometimes get extra information that isn’t on the transcribed sites. Normally there is a townland for each party, so you can tell where they were living at the time of the marriage. Some sites don’t transcribe the witnesses names either.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Tuesday 24th Jan 2017, 09:15AM

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