Robert Brown/Ellen "Eleanor" McComish Rathfriland, Co. Down

Joanne,

I see that Richard and Eleanor married on 24.11.1858. However there are no apparently children between that and 1867.  Statutory birth registration only started in Ireland in 1864, so it?s possible there were children in the intervening years, but whose births weren?t registered. You would need baptism records to find them.

I had a look for the children?s births in the stat registers. The only ones I could find with any certainty were Mary 2 on 5.4.1873, and Robert 1.9.1878 both registered in Newry (mother?s maiden name McComish). There?s a possible for Mary 1 on 7.5.1869, with mother?s maiden name McCormick. (May be McComish mistranscribed). Then there?s a female birth on 22.4.1870 with no forename. So that may be Rachel. (Mother?s maiden name McCoamish).

You can view those certificates on-line for ?2 each on the GRONI site. Use the search registrations option.

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

Ellen?s age in 1880 is given as 42. So born c 1838. I suspect that this may have been a mixed marriage and that Ellen/Eleanor was RC. If she came from the immediate area around Cross then that?s the RC parish of Drumgath. Their records start in 1829. They are not on-line anywhere so far as I am aware. However there?s a copy in the National Library in Dublin (and those records will be going on-line in the summer of 2015). There?s also a copy in PRONI, Belfast. LDS have also filmed them and you can order that in to your nearest LDS library.

You say that Richard died in Irvine in 1891. Scottish death certificates have both parents names, so if you don?t already have it, you should get his mother?s name from that source. (It should be on Scotlandspeople).

Robert Browne is listed in the townland of Cross (parish of Drumgath) in 1864. He had an agricultural labourers cottage (plot 16e) on David Martin?s farm. Just to the east of the modern Hilltown Rd. That?s just on the outskirts of Rathfriland. The revision records show that Robert had left by 1875.

Ellen?s father is probably also there. There?s a listing for Patrick McCormish on plot 50a. Patrick and Peter are interchangeable names in Ireland. Patrick had a house and outbuildings on William Woods farm. (On Wright?s Park, off the modern Drumlough Rd. Looks from the map to have been built on with a small housing estate today). The revision records show Patrick has leaving in 1875.

You can see where these places are using the maps on the Griffiths site. It?s a bit fiddly and takes a little time to get used to. There?s a slider bar in the top right hand corner of the maps screen which allows you to overlay a modern map on the contemporaneous 1860s map.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/ImageResult.aspx

Elwyn

Hi Elwyn, It appears there have been many mixed marriages in the family. You state "If she came from the immediate area around Cross then that’s the RC parish of Drumgath." How would, one know, or find this information? Unfortunately when I pulled the Death record for Robert Brown from Scotlands People (attached) his father is listed as William, as expected, but his Mother's name is completely illegible. Thanks for your help, as always! I'm going to go play with some maps. Joanne

I don?t think the surname is illegible. I think it?s blank because the informant didn?t know either her Christian name, or maiden name. (He probably never met her). It says blank line Brown, M.S and then another blank line. (MS stands for maiden surname). So the son just didn?t know.

Regarding how you would find her place of birth, there?s no easy way. Births weren?t registered then. You just have to assume she was probably local. Most people married someone who lived within walking distance of where they lived. The arrival of the bicycle in the mid 1800s widened the scope for courtship over a wider area but for many generations it was said that you married someone who lived within an ?asses bark? of where you lived.

If you don?t find Ellen in Drumgath, you would need to widen the search to adjacent parishes. You can see what RC parishes there were in the area using this link, which also tells you when the records start. (Not every parish in Ireland has records that go back that far).

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/

Elwyn,

Yes, you're probably correct that William wouldn't have known who she was. Hopefully I'll be able to find Ellen's Birth.

Thanks for the link.

Joanne