English nee Hammond

Hi Blue Willow,

David English and Eliza Winning were my GGGrandparents also. 

My GGrandparents were John English and Elizabeth Pillinger.

I have reached many brick walls during the past 10 years that I have been attempting research my family history.  Do you have any other English family info apart from the above?

Sage

What was Eliza Winning?s townland (address) on her marriage certificate, what was her father?s occupation and when did she marry in Broughshane?

Hello Ahoghill

Thank you so much for your quick response, I really appreciate it.

Eliza Hannah Winning was from Islandstown.  Her father Peter Winning was a Labourer as was her husband David English and his father James English.  She and David were married on 11 December 1863 by Rev WVG Dudgeon at Skerry & Rath Church - St Patricks, Broughshane.  The witnesses were Robert Mahood and George Falconer.

I hope you can help me - perhaps you are a relative?  I'm looking forward to your response.

Blue Willow

Blue Willow,

I am not connected with your family. I just respond to queries in the Co Antrim area, on behalf of Ireland Reaching Out.

I looked at the revaluation records for Islandstown to see if the Winning household was listed in the 1860s but it isn?t. That doesn?t mean they weren?t there. Many labourers only stayed a short period of time (they tended to move about to follow the work) and so weren?t recorded, and in other cases very small cabins (such as labourers often used) didn?t get listed as they were of too low a rental value to be worth listing.

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church. If the Winnings were always in Skerry & Racavan parish that may be the place to look for Eliza?s baptism and that of any siblings. Skerry COI?s baptism records start in 1805 so that?s helpful. (Marriages in 1826 and burials 1828). They don?t appear to be on-line anywhere, so you may have to get someone to look them up in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast.

Peter Winning is not a common name in Ireland. There?s no-one of that name in the 1901 census and only 1 statutory death (Cork 1896, for someone born 1843, so not your man). So possibly he died before 1864 (when death registration started).

I searched for gravestones in the Ballymena/Broughshane area but there are no Winning gravestones at all. Again that doesn?t mean they weren?t buried there, just that they couldn?t afford a gravestone, which was common to much of the population.

I looked in the general area for Winnings in the 1901 census. There are only 23 in Co Antrim. All are Presbyterian (indicating Scottish origins). None in Islandstown. Nearest to Broughshane were families in Ballynacraigy, Broughshane itself and Portlee. All within 3 or 4 miles.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Broughshane/Broughshane_Upper/927962/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Cargin/Ballynacraigy/919146/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Cargin/Portlee/919178/

Tracking labourers families can be difficult because of their tendency to move about a lot, and the fact they are less likely to have gravestones or leave wills etc. I think your only avenue at this point is to search the church records. If you don?t find Eliza in the Skerry and Racavan records, I?d try the Presbyterian churches in the area eg Broughshane 1^st, Buckna, Cloughwater and Newtowcrommelin.

I looked for David English?s 1^st marriage to Jane McCullock (McCulloch seems more likely) but cannot see it listed in Ireland, 1845 to 1863.

Elwyn

Hi Elwyn,

Of course.  I realised as soon as I hit "send"!

I'm just always hopeful  of some family there somewhere!

Thank you so much for your detailed response.  I'll keep searching.  It is so frustrating from here. 2015 might have to be the year I visit.

Thank you again,

B

English/Winning

Hi Blue Willow,

David English and Eliza Winning were my GGGrandparents also. 

My GGrandparents were John English and Elizabeth Pillinger.

My Grandparents were Eward George English and Sarah Elizabeth Thomas

Obviously we are related, I also live in NSW, contact me if you are interested in comparing notes - not that I have many. 

Sage

Hello Sage and Blue Willow,

my GGGrandparents were the brother of John English Peter English and the sister of Elizabeth Julia Pillinger. I get back to David and Eliza Winning married in Broughshane as well.

I live in SEQueensland. I have a family tree on another site.

Steve.

Hello Sage and Blue Willow,

my GGGrandparents were the brother of John English Peter English and the sister of Elizabeth Julia Pillinger. I get back to David and Eliza Winning married in Broughshane as well.

I live in SEQueensland. I have a family tree on another site.

Steve.

Hello Steve,

Great to hear from you. 

I think I know more about your family history than that of my GG parents, John English and Elizabeth Pillinger. I have found very little information from before they came to NSW, so anything would be a help.

Christine.

Hello Christine, 

My Grandfather Peter, the youngest of David A English children left home in Ballymena when 17 and worked across in Scotland before emmigrating to Australia. He resided in Eight Mile Plains for some time and married Julia Pillinger of Tingalpa. I believe that Peter sponsored the emmigration of his brother John to marry his sister-in-law Elizabeth who was previously married with chilgren in England. He also sponsored his Father David and mother Eliza. I have a detailed family tree on ancestry.com.

Peter was for a time a suspect in the murder of his Father-in-law, your GGGrandfather, hailed in the news of the day " The Broadwater murder" in 1881. The Schoolteacher in the emply of Pillinger was convicted of his manslaughter after a supreme court trial. Look it up on trove, a very detailed account.

Cheers,

Steve