Shea and Long

Kathleen:

Welcome back to Ireland Reaching Out!

You are correct that the baptismal entry for Cornelius is very, very difficult to interpret. It almost reads like he was the son of Ellen Shea. I think at the end of the line the townland or place name where they lived is shown and it may be Caheracruttera.

I will contact a collegue from another parish in Kerry who might be able to better deduce the baptismal entry.

Roger McDonnell

Hi Kathleen & Roger, I can the problem because I have been looking at it now for a couple of hours.

I'm not very familiar with this area so please bear with me as I do some background research.

Ballinvoher Civil Parish

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/bvoher1.html

Shea defaulters on the Tithes 1825

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Shea&firstname=&county=Kerry&parish=Ballinvoher&townland=&search=S

One John Shea listed in Glannaheera, but we can't be 100% sure that he is our John.

By 1852 there are 3 Shea men renting land in Glannaheera, Denis, William & James all renting from John Lynch

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=1675749&county=Kerry&barony=Corkaguiny&parish=Ballinvoher&townland=%3Cb%3EGlannaheera%3C/b%3E

By 1901 there are 4,675 Sheas in Co. Kerry!

Glannaheera (the sp. has changed) is in the DED of Inch and there are no Sheas living there by 1901.

Going back to the baptism record you brought to us, I can see that the transcription reads as you describe

NameCORNELIUS SHEA

Date of Birth17 November 1833 (BASED ON OTHER DATE INFORMATION)AddressNR

FatherJOHN SHEA

MotherELLEN LONG

Further details in the recordChild DenominationRCFather OccupationNRSponsor 1GERALD MCCARTHYSponsor 2ELLEN SHEAPriestNR

Reading the original it seems that the priest in other entries wrote the entry as follows 

Name of child eg John Brown

 Pat (Father's name Brown unwritten)  & Jane White (mother's name)

Sponsors (where married?) James & Mary Murphy

He seems then to have recorded the townland name in shorthand B'groun for Ballinagroun etc

Could the last word in the original be G'hera?

I have found 2 more children for John Shea & Ellen Long, Ellen~Cornelius' twin and John born 1831

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name2fm=&name2l=Long&namefm=&namel=Shea&location=annascaul&yyfrom=1830&yyto=1860&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&diocese=&parish=&century=&decade=&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=&yyDfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&yyBto=&yyMto=&yyDto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=&event=

John's transcribed bapt. rec. gives a place name, the transcription reads Glannyhyrig which I am reading as a variant spelling of Glannaheera. 

I must go very shortly but if this was my Kerry family, I would now look for Shea marriages with parents John Shea & Ellen Long and remember that people married in the woman's parish normally so you may not only find them in Annascaul RC Parish. My aim would be to track the family up to Civil Registration in 1864 and beyond in order to get clearer records.

I would also contact the Valuation Office in Dublin to see when John Shea's tenancy at Glannaheera ended, did a son or son in law take over the tenancy. Then check for a mariage record to confirm.

Whilst doing all this bearing in mind that we have at this time no solid proof that this John is your John.

Shea is a huge Kerry name and I would urge you to do an Autosomal DNA test, which just might be the key to unlocking your homeplace in Kerry.

I hope that you have found this helpful and wish you all the luck in the world in your search.

sincerely

Martine Brennan

Hi Kathleen & Roger, I can the problem because I have been looking at it now for a couple of hours.

I'm not very familiar with this area so please bear with me as I do some background research.

Ballinvoher Civil Parish

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlker/bvoher1.html

Shea defaulters on the Tithes 1825

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Shea&firstname=&county=Kerry&parish=Ballinvoher&townland=&search=S

One John Shea listed in Glannaheera, but we can't be 100% sure that he is our John.

By 1852 there are 3 Shea men renting land in Glannaheera, Denis, William & James all renting from John Lynch

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=1675749&county=Kerry&barony=Corkaguiny&parish=Ballinvoher&townland=%3Cb%3EGlannaheera%3C/b%3E

By 1901 there are 4,675 Sheas in Co. Kerry!

Glannaheera (the sp. has changed) is in the DED of Inch and there are no Sheas living there by 1901.

Going back to the baptism record you brought to us, I can see that the transcription reads as you describe

NameCORNELIUS SHEA

Date of Birth17 November 1833 (BASED ON OTHER DATE INFORMATION)AddressNR

FatherJOHN SHEA

MotherELLEN LONG

Further details in the recordChild DenominationRCFather OccupationNRSponsor 1GERALD MCCARTHYSponsor 2ELLEN SHEAPriestNR

Reading the original it seems that the priest in other entries wrote the entry as follows 

Name of child eg John Brown

 Pat (Father's name Brown unwritten)  & Jane White (mother's name)

Sponsors (where married?) James & Mary Murphy

He seems then to have recorded the townland name in shorthand B'groun for Ballinagroun etc

Could the last word in the original be G'hera?

I have found 2 more children for John Shea & Ellen Long, Ellen~Cornelius' twin and John born 1831

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name2fm=&name2l=Long&namefm=&namel=Shea&location=annascaul&yyfrom=1830&yyto=1860&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&diocese=&parish=&century=&decade=&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=&yyDfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&yyBto=&yyMto=&yyDto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=&event=

John's transcribed bapt. rec. gives a place name, the transcription reads Glannyhyrig which I am reading as a variant spelling of Glannaheera. 

I must go very shortly but if this was my Kerry family, I would now look for Shea marriages with parents John Shea & Ellen Long and remember that people married in the woman's parish normally so you may not only find them in Annascaul RC Parish. My aim would be to track the family up to Civil Registration in 1864 and beyond in order to get clearer records.

I would also contact the Valuation Office in Dublin to see when John Shea's tenancy at Glannaheera ended, did a son or son in law take over the tenancy. Then check for a mariage record to confirm.

Whilst doing all this bearing in mind that we have at this time no solid proof that this John is your John.

Shea is a huge Kerry name and I would urge you to do an Autosomal DNA test, which just might be the key to unlocking your homeplace in Kerry.

I hope that you have found this helpful and wish you all the luck in the world in your search.

sincerely

Martine Brennan

Martine and Roger,

This is so incredibly exciting. Thank you SO much!!

I believe this is my John Shea and Ellen (aka Bridget) Long. Cornelius and his wife, Mary Kane, named their oldest son John and their only daughter Ellen. The Ottawa marriage certificate had Cornelius' mother as Bridget Long but perhaps that was her middle name.

Martine - I will follow your suggestions. I have done an autosomal DNA test through Ancestry. It was extremely helpful in identifying the Limerick birthplace of my great-grandmother, Bridget Neville. I haven't explored the results in depth to compare gene 'hits' with particular branches of my family tree yet but it is on my TO DO list.

I am extremely grateful for your help and taking the time to answer my question. Thank you again!!

Kathleen

Kathleen:

You may want to look into Gedmatch www.gedmatch.com   Gedmatch is a volunteer run site where users can upload your raw DNA data and see if you match someone who tested with another company (and also loaded their data to Gedmatch). It allows you to expand your potential pool of matches.

Roger

Thanks, Roger. I did upload my DNA file to both gedmatch and FamilyTreeDNA.

As I relooked at the baptismal record, I am thinking the "twins", Cornelius and sister Ellen are the beginning of the citation.

I'm been busy tonight doing some more digging but haven't uncovered anything additional. As I looked at a map of Glannaheera, I was taken by how many times (4?) that I've driven down N86 on the way to/from Dingle.

Thanks again,

Kathleen

Dear Kathleen, a small group of people with Kerry ancestry who have uploaded to gedmatch have come together on Facebook. Kerry DNA Project Group

This might also be useful to you.

Good luck

Martine