Seeking Information on Peter Grogan circa 1850's Lower Philipstown, Co. Offaly
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- Seeking Information on Peter Grogan circa 1850's Lower Philipstown, Co. Offaly
My GGG Grandfather was Peter Grogan born abt 1820. I have very little information on Peter other than what appears in his children's marriage certificates in Dublin in the 1870's.
My GG Grandfather, also Peter Grogan listed his father as a "Land Stewart" in his marriage in Dublin 1877. Other siblings have him listed as a "Bookkeeper" "Builder" and a "Clerk".
I have found a Peter Grogan of Philipstown Lower in Thom's, bet. 1852-1856 working as "Barony Cess Collector" and wondering could this be my GGG grandfather?
I have a possible match for Peter's wife as Charlotte Moore living in Great Mecklenburg Street in 1860 (The same Charlotte enters the N.Dublin workhouse in 1863, married) after this I have found Charlotte and other members of the family living in New Street, Dublin - But nothing for Peter.
Is there anyone with ties to the Grogan family living in Philipstown around this time?
Thanks in advance for your help!
AnnD2000Tuesday 23rd Aug 2022, 02:12PM
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Here is the transcription of a baptismal record for a Peter Grogan, child of Peter Grogan and Charlotte Moore (from rootsireland.ie).
Name: Peter Grogan
RC parish of BRAY, Co. Wicklow
Parents: Peter Grogan, Charlotte Moore
Sponsors: Patrick Norton, Alice Highland
I found the baptism of Mary Grogan, child of Peter Grogan and Charlotte Moor, on 05-Oct-1856 in Monasterevin, Co. Kildare. Townland of Lackagh. James Conlon and Mary Behan, sponsors. This is 33 years after the Peter Grogan baptism in my earlier post. Were there two Peters married to Charlotte Moores? OR was Mary an adult at the time of baptism in the RC church? She was baptized in 1856. I found a Mary Grogan who got married a few months later in Co. Louth to a McDonnell.
There was a Michael Grogan in Philipstown at the time of the Tithe Applotments:
The 1796 Irish Flax Growers List listed one Grogan in Offaly:
Grogan Peter Killaghally Or Wheery (townland) Offaly
A Peter Grogan in Brackagh, Tullamore Rural, Offaly, in 1901 Irish census:
Attached FilesMarriage Record - James Grogan & Mary Jane McCarthy - 16 May 1874 - St Marks Church, Dublin.pdf (211.68 KB)Marriage Record - Church Record - Elizabeth Grogan & Thomas Partick Phelan - 14 Jan 1874 - St Nicholas & St Lukes.pdf (1.38 MB)Marriage Record - Church Record - Peter Grogan & Anne Leech - 7 Aug 1877 - St Nicolas Without & St Luke.pdf (1.41 MB)
Thanks very much for the response & the help! This is becoming a bit of a puzzle! Forgive this longwinded response as I want to give as much info before getting into my queries/puzzle below.
I have seen the baptismal record for Peter Grogan in Bray on Ancestry, but I have a question mark over it and a question mark over Charlotte's Surname as Moore as this is a RC baptism.... My GG grandfather Peter is protestant at the time of his marriage to Anne Leech in 1877 and again in 1901 & 1911 census. He is the only one of his siblings that married RC and in turn his children are all RC, whereas Peter's siblings, James, Elizabeth and Mary all marry COI and their children are COI.
Also, the record I've found for their mother Charlotte entering the N.Dublin workhouse in 1863 states that they are Protestant.
So although I know Peter's mother is Charlotte - I'm not certain that she is Moore. (Her death record in 1877 as Charlotte Grogan at 57 New Street, Dublin)
FYI - The year of birth on ancestry for the above Bray record states 1853 as year of birth/baptism. I did notice the discrepancy on Roots when I had a subscription!
So here's what I know of the family to date...
Charlotte Grogan Nee ??? b.abt 1823 . May 1863-Enters North Dublin workhouse age 40 with children Peter (10) & Mary(6). States place of birth of her & children at Co. Antrim. They are protestant. Husband is Peter, former address is 37 Gloucester Place. (Peter is "Let out my mother" after 5months, Charlotte & Mary remain for another 3months)
Death: Feb 1877, age 55, Widow of a Clerk, 57 New Street. Registered by Mary Grogan (daughter??) of same address.
Children with Peter Grogan:
James Grogan b.abt 1851(no bap record to date) m. Mary Jane McCarthy May 1874, St Marks, Dublin (COI). Witnesses William Mourney & Isabella Somers. (Address is 57 New Street, Dublin, working as a Brass Founder, lists father Peter Grogan as a Book keeper)
Children: Edward(1874) Thomas (1876) James (1878) Elizabeth (1879) Charlotte (1882) Margaret (1883) John Stephen (1886) Osborne (1888) (Children are born at various addresses: 8 Marlboro St / 15 Lwr Gardiner St / 25 Summerhill) I have no baptism records for any.
James dies in Sept 1891 age abt.40years, so I never get a place of birth from census info.
Elizabeth Grogan b.abt 1852 (no bap record to date) m. Thomas Patrick Phelan, Sergeant 10th Reg. Jan 1874, St. Nicholas Without & St. Lukes (COI) Witnessed by: Patrick Dillon & Elizabeth Tyrell. (Address for both is 37 New Street, Dublin, lists father Peter Grogan as a Builder)
Children: Mary Hannah Phelan (1874 -57 New Street) Alice Genevieve (1876-34 Lwr Clanbrassil Street) Thomas Scott (1878-6 Grenville Terrace) Elizabeth Charlotte (1879-41 Grenville Terrace) Arthur Percy Henry (1881-Pembroke House, Booterstown) Ernest Victor (1882-Booterstown Ave)
1901 Census at 164 Leeson Park Ave, Elizabeth lists her POB as Belfast. Some of the Kavanagh children below are living with them also. She dies in 1908 age 55 at 4 Bath Ave, widow of a clerk of the South Dublin Union.
Peter Grogan b.abt 1853 (My GG Grandfather) (DOB as per 1863 record in N.Dublin workhouse) m. Anne Leech Aug 1877, St. Nicholas without & St Lukes Dublin (COI) Witnesses Thomas Phelan & Mary Leech. (Address is 55 Lwr Clanbrassil St, working as a Brass Finisher, lists father Peter Grogan as a Land Stewart)
Children: James (1878-107 Marlboro St) Charlotte (1879-107 Marl. St. Bap Pro Cathedral, SS. Kate Ryan) Thomas (1881-6 Mabbot St. Bap Pro Cath., SS Ellen Ryan) Catherine (My G.Grandmother) (1883-17 Lwr Gloucester Place, Bap Pro Cath. SS Ellen Healy) Mary Anne (1884-17 Upp Glouscester Place, Bap Pro Cath. SS Eliza Sullivan) Peter (1886-113 Lwr Gardiner St. Bap Pro Cth. SS Esther Sheppard) Kevin (1888-5 Lwr Gardiner St. Bap Pro Cth. SS Fanny Richards) Matthew (1892-12 Cumberland St. Bap Pro Cth. SS Charlotte Grogan) John (1895-26 Upp Gloucester St. Bap Pro Cth. SS William? & Margaret Lawless) Anne (1898-26 Upp Gloucester St.)
1901 Census at 26 Upp Gloucester St. POB is listed as Co. Dublin, Age 45, Peter is COI, wife & children are RC
1911 Census at 91 Lwr Gardiner St. POB is listed as Dublin City, Age 54, Peter is COI, wife & children are RC
Peter dies in March 1918 - 10 Lwr Gardiner St. Age 64.
Mary Grogan b. abt 1857 (DOB as per 1863 record in N.Dub workhouse) m. Patrick Kavanagh, compositor, May 1879, St. Nicolas without & St. Lukes Dublin (COI) Witnessed By: Thomas Phelan & Alice Connolly. (Address is 6 Grenville Terrace, lists father Peter Grogan as Clerk)
Children: Elizabeth Kavanagh (1880-29 Lwr Clanbrassil St, Bap St Nicholas & St Lukes, address is 57 New St. No SS) John Joseph (1882-10 Charlotte St, Bap Harrington St. SS Seamus O'Keeffe & Elizabeth Boland) Mary Charlotte (1884-15 Weaver's Sq. Bap Harrington St, SS Daniel Mooney & Mary A Mooney) Constance (1890-57 New Street) Bridget (Abt 1891) Margaret (1894-6 Grenville St)
Her daughter Margaret dies in 1897 and after this I cannot find any record of Mary or husband Patrick.
Charlotte Grogan (POSSIBLY) b. Sep 1860-18 Great Mecklenburg Street (now known as Railway St, beside Glouscester place-address listed in 1863) BAP: Pro Cathedral, SS Catherine Robbins)
This Charlotte dies in Oct 1860 - Her mother is definitely Charlotte Moore.
I have zero records on their father Peter Grogan, a couple of maybe's here & there, hence why I thought to come here re the Philipstown record. Is it possible I have the correct Peter based on his occupation, Barony Cess Collector? Which I believe is a type of Land Agent, that made assessments on property for tax purposes?
The discrepancies between the places of birth are killing me, together with the religions stated on the various records you found...
The query on Charlotte Grogan birth in 1860 - she was baptised RC, so if this is not the same family then I don't believe MOORE is the maiden name of my GGG grandmother Charlotte.
I did do a bit of a deep dive into the Peter Grogan appearing in Griffiths and there is a connection to the Lessor of these properties, Earl of Charlville to a Northern Ireland Moore family! Coincidence!!!???
Also, a Peter Grogan appears alongside a Peter Egan in a number of places around Philipstown & Daingean areas and I do believe I have a very small DNA connection to this Peter Egan (b. 1831 Philipstown) and just this evening I've noticed one of the sponsors at his baptism is ELIZBETH GROGAN!
So I suppose I'm playing detective here! Maybe the Grogan's were going from Belfast to to Bray to Kildare to Offaly to Dublin - (bit of a stretch!) Maybe they took the soup and converted from RC to COI?!
I do believe Peter died somewhere between 1863-1877, but no record to date.
I think I need someone else's eyes looking at it for a change, so thanks for taking the time and ANY advice you can offer is greatly appreciated!
Looking forward to your thoughts!