Hi there. We will be visiting the county of Tipperary in a couple of weeks and I am researching my husband's family background. His mother was born in Ireland and I am trying to confirm and find any information on where the family might have lived. My husband's mother was, Helen Gertrude Kelly, was born Oct 12th 1916 and she was the daughter of Stephen Kelly (born Dec 28th 1886) and Mary Darmody (born 1890). I believe they lived in the Nenagh area or Tipperary. They had 10 children.
Thomas Kelly born May 17th 1904
Bridget Kelly born June 17h 1905
Nora Kelly born Sept 1st 1906
Timothy Kelly Born Aug 29th1903
Michael Kelly Born Aug 12th 1914
Ellen Kelly born oct 12th 1916
James Oliver born June 26th 1920
Laurence Kelly born Aug 6th 1908
Lizzie Kelly born Nov 1th 1909
Mary Patricia born March 15th 1912 Died Oct 1st 1986
Looking to connect with any family members still in the area or find out where family might have lived.
I would really appreciate any information I can find.
Thank you so much for your time.
LynneThursday 11th May 2023, 09:20PM
Message Board Replies
This transcription of the civil marriage record for Stephen Kelly and Mary Darmody from RootsIreland shows that he lived in Nenagh and she lived in Lodge.
Parish Of Nenagh, Co. Tipperary
Name: Stephen Kelly Mary Darmody
Address: Nenagh Lodge
Denomination: Civil Record Civil Record
Occupation: Postman Not Recorded
Bachelor (Previously Unmarried) Spinster (Previously Unmarried)
Name: Thomas Kelly, Postman
Wife's Father Patrick Darmody, Labourer
Witness: Thomas Kelly Maggie Darmody
Married In Kilodeirnan Church
C Egan Adm [Priest]
** Full Age
*** Full Age
This is your family in the 1911 Irish census. They lived in Old Turnpike. The number 16 is not a house number.
Residents of a house 16 in Old Turnpike, (Pt. of) (Nenagh West Urban, Tipperary)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Kelly Stephen 27 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Postman Read and write - Married - - - -
Kelly Mary 29 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Tipperary - Read and write - Married - 7 6 6
Kelly Thomas 7 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar - - Single - - - -
Kelly Bridget 6 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar - - Single - - - -
Kelly Nora 5 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar - - Single - - - -
Kelly Laurence 3 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary - - - Single - - - -
Kelly Lizzie 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Tipperary - - - Single - - - -
Kelly Stephen Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary - - - Single - - - -
You might consider contacting Nenagh Heritage: https://www.facebook.com/Nenaghheritage.
The town of Nenagh is divided into several traditional townlands, which were normally the smallest address units (there were sub-townlands in some areas), and people still use them in many cases, especially in rural areas. The townland where the family resided was usually the place which the priest cited in baptismal records. There are two adjoining townlands using the name Nenagh in Tipperary, Nenagh North and Nenagh South. The former is much larger, and includes most of the town. You can see more info about Nenagh North at this link, and can use the additional links there and the interactive map to look around the area:
The census record given above refers to Nenagh West, and a local turnpike, so it may be that one of the adjoining townlands to the southwest, which you can see listed with links to their info (such as Stearame, along the Limerick Road) would be the correct one for where your family lived. If you visit, someone there may be able to help you more.
All of the townlands in and around Nenagh appear to be in the Catholic parish of Nenagh, and you can access the parish register online at the following link:
The records go pretty far back (to 1792, with some gaps), and you can download any pages in the register with relevant records. There's also an interactive map there, which can be used to move to other parishes.
There are also two townlands in Tipperary called Lodge, but they are far apart from one another. One is a long distance from Nenagh to the south, but the other looks to be only about 4-5 miles north of Nenagh. You can see more info about that townland here:
Comparing the parish and townland maps, it appears that Lodge (the one near Nenagh) is in the Catholic parish of Monsea, which lies just to the northwest of the parish of Nenagh (it would not be uncommon for people from two such adjoining parishes to marry). You can access the Monsea parish records at this link:
The Monsea records online only appear to cover 1834-1865 (-1870 for marriages), so you may not be able to find Mary's baptism, but Stephen and Mary were both born after the start of civil (versus parish) records, so there should be civil birth records to find for them. If you find those, their parents' names should be given, and you may be able to find their parents, and even their grandparents, in the parish records, tracing backwards.
As the Church is named Killodiernan this is the map.
Look north and you will see Lodge. This is the address on the marriage.
Stephen Kelly passed in 1963 his address was Ormond Street, Nenagh.
Norah was present at the death, his daughter, he was a widower.
Mary passed in 1941 Ormond Street. Bridget was present at the death by that time she was married.
Are you in touch with people in the UK?
There is a tree and has your Helen listed in Canada. They have Eileen Frances and Mary Patricia's line.
The other children are listed without any other information.
I am not related to you.
Based on the details in your post to Ireland Reaching Out and the information that Patricia provided, I found a copy of the original civil registration birth record for Ellen Kelly at the free irishgenealogy.ie website.
The website however, does not have a copy of the original marriage record for her parents Stephen Kelly and Mary Darmody, but only a transcription of the marriage similar to the one that Patricia submitted from RootsIreland.
As you had stated, Ellen Kelly was born on October 12, 1916. Her place of birth was “Turnpike Nenagh.” Her father Stephen’s occupation was “Postman.” Her mother Mary reported the birth to the registrar, William Courtney, who recorded the birth in the Nenagh Registration District on November 6, 1916. Ellen’s birth is number 8 in the register, which you can access after following the prompts at: https://tinyurl.com/3aryvcmm
Ellen’s birthplace of Turnpike is a reference to the Old Turnpike location in the 1911census transcription for the Kelly family provided by Patricia.
The following records from the ireishgenealogy.ie website will take you to the civil registration birth records for Ellen’s 9 siblings, beginning with Thomas.
Your records show that Thomas was born on May 17, 1904. His birth record gives his date of birth as May 10, 1904 and his place of birth as, “Turnpike Nenagh.” Thomas’s birth is number 422 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/5pkdx3f6
I have found over the past several years in looking at Irish birth records like Thomas’s, that dates of birth are not always accurate, and so it may be that Thomas was actually born on May 17, 1904.
Bridget’s birth record gives her date of birth as July 7, 1905 rather than June 17, 1905. Again, the July 7 date may not be accurate. Her place of birth was “Turnpike Nenagh.” Bridget’s is the first entry in the register at number 172: https://tinyurl.com/yc6br7b7
Norah Kelly was born on September 1, 1906, which is the date of birth you have for her. Her birthplace was “Turnpike Nenagh.” Norah’s birth is the first entry in the register, number 372: https://tinyurl.com/2scmyryj
Laurence was born on August 6, 1908 in a Nenagh street called “Summerhill.” His birth record is number 24 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/23t3rkwr
Lizzie was born in the Turnpike Nenagh on November 13, 1909. Your birth for her is November 1, 1909. In Lizzy’s birth record the person who was present at the birth and who reported the birth to the district registrar was a lady named Bridget Walsh of Graces Street, Nenagh. She may have been the midwife who helped to deliver Lizzie.
Lizzie’s birth is number 268 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/2s4kerfd
Mary was born Turnpike Nenagh on March 15, 1912. Bridget Walsh was present at the birth. Mary’s birth is number 198 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/yjdkub29
Your records show that Timothy was born on August 29, 1903, but his birth record shows he was actually born on August 29, 1913 in the “Turnpike Nenagh.” This is likely his real birth year, rather than 1903.
Bridget Walsh was present at his birth.
His birth is number 462 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/4a9v2zjt
If Timothy had been born on August 29, 1903, his birth would have taken place one month after the marriage of his parents on July 29, 1903.
Michael was born in Summerhill, Nenagh on October 12, 1914. Bridget Walsh was present at his birth. See number 172 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/2a39jcrk
ELLEN KELLY’S 1916 BIRTH TOOK PLACE AFTER MICHAEL’S
JAMES OLIVER KELLY
James was born in the Turnpike, Nenagh on June 26, 1920. His birth is number 107 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/bdd9kzws
It looks like Stephen and Mary Kelly knew their Irish Catholic history, as indications are they gave James the middle name of “Oliver,” after Oliver Plunket, who was the Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of All Ireland in the 17th century.
According to a Wikipedia article, Oliver Plunkett was born on 1 November 1625 in Loughcrew, County Meath, and died on 1 July 1681 in Tyburn, London, England.
He was “Beatified,” by Pope Benedict XV on 23 May, 1920, just a month before James’s birth. Oliver Plunket wasn’t canonized a saint however until 12 October 1975. See the Wikipedia article at:
If you go up the birth register page for James Kelly to number 102, you’ll see the birth record for a John Oliver Plunket Healy, who was born in Castle Street, Nenagh on May 21, 1920. His parents had the same idea as James’s parents concerning Oliver Plunket.
The birth records for 8 of the 10 Kelly children show the address of the family as the Turnpike, Nenagh. Two children, Laurence and Michael, were born in the Summerhill Road. The Turnpike on 19th century maps of Nenagh is called the “Old Turnpike.” The Old Turnpike road today is called the Ormond Road, as shown on the townlands.ie map kindly provided by Kevin, who also mentioned that there was a Nenagh North and a Nenagh South.
On modern maps the Ormond Road, located in Nenagh North, is also designated the R497. The Old Turnpike/Ormond Road is actually an extension of the Summerhill Road. The Summerhill road in turn is an extension of Castle Street, now Pearse Street, traveling north from the Nenagh Town Centre.
This Ordnance survey Map from the 19th century shows that The Old Turnpike begins just north of the Ordnance Ground, Infantry Barracks, and Hospital. The map is from the free GeoHive website: https://i2.paste.pics/NYWP8.png
On the Ordnance Survey Map, traveling east from The Old Turnpike, you’ll see the Birr Road. Today, this road is called the Lower Birr Road. On the townlands.ie map it is called the Bulfin Road.
The Google Map at the following link shows that the Lower Birr Road T-junctions into the Ormond Road/R497, formerly The Old Turnpike: https://tinyurl.com/yd7zjny7
Here is a Google Street View of the R497 and the Lower Birr Road/Bulfin Road: https://tinyurl.com/9539knjs
Your Kellys may have lived in one of these houses you see on both sides of the R497 in Nenagh: https://tinyurl.com/48tm56rb
The same 19th century Ordnance Survey Map shows Summer Hill where it meets the Ordnance Ground, Infantry Barracks, and Hospital, just below The Old Turnpike: https://i2.paste.pics/NX8SX.png
An Ordnance Survey Map of Nenagh Centre shows Castle Street heading north into Summer Hill and the Ordnance Ground: https://i2.paste.pics/NX9Q6.png
Here is an old Photo of Summer Hill, Nenagh, from the rareirishstuff.com website: https://tinyurl.com/ycxyvxzf
The photo of Summer Hill looks like it was colorized and was used as a postcard.
Today Castle Street in Nenagh is called Pearse Street. This Google Map shows Pearse Street, Summerhill, and Ormond Street, along the R497 in Nenagh: https://tinyurl.com/ycyj9jpx
Also see information about Castle Street/Pearse Street from the tipperarystudies.ie website at:
With a combination of the map of Nenagh from the townlands.ie site, the Ordnance Survey Maps, along with the Google Maps and Street Views, you should be able to find Summer Hill and the former Old Turnpike (Ormond Street) where your husband’s Kellys had lived in Nenagh.
The following link from the National Archives of Ireland will bring you to a copy of the original 1911 census for Stephen and Mary Kelly and their children living in The Old Turnpike, Nenagh. The census was taken on Sunday evening, 2 April 1911: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003312226/
If you scroll down to the lower right corner of the census page you’ll see Stephen Kelly’s signature.
To the left of Stephen’s name is the name of the Enumerator who collected the census. In addition to being a census enumerator, he was also a Nenagh constable. His name was J. Randles.
My cousin Joe Harrington was also a police officer in Nenagh for many years. The national police in Ireland today are called “An Garda Síochána,” that is, the Guardians of the Peace, euphemistically called the “Guards,” or in the plural, the Gardai, pronounced “Gardee.”
Going back to the marriage of Stephen Kelly and Mary Darmody, when you are in Nenagh, stop by the Civil Registration Service to see if you can obtain a copy of the marriage certificate in person. You can also ask about obtaining death certificates for your husband’s ancestors who died in Nenagh and surrounding area. Some county registration service offices allow for people to walk in for a certificate, but some do not, according to the citizensinformation.ie website link at:
Go to the following link for a map and directions for Nenagh’s Civil Registration Service, off the R498 road: https://tinyurl.com/3z7ssjtd
The marriage record for Stephen Kelly and Mary Darmody shows the couple were married in the Kilodeirnan Catholic Church. This would have been Mary Darmody’s parish church, as Irish marriages traditionally took place, and still take place in the bride’s parish.
The Civil Parish by this name is spelled a little differently than the spelling in the marriage record. According to the IreAtlas Townland Data Base it is spelled, “Killodiernan.”
The IreAtlas Townland Data Base shows that Lodge was located in the Killodiernan Civil parish: https://tinyurl.com/mh4hfbhu
The closest Catholic Church to Lodge in the Killodiernan Civil parish is in Puckaun, as far as I could determine. Puckaun was also in the Civil Parish of Killodiernan: https://tinyurl.com/bde4nwhf
What this signifies is that the Catholic Church in Puckaun was named after the Civil Parish it was located in, rather than in the townland it was located in.
A Google Map shows that Lodge is 6/10th of a mile north of Our Lady and St. Patrick’s Church along the R493 road in “Puckane.” I believe this is the church were Stephen and Mary were married in 1903. See the map: https://tinyurl.com/4wjumc57
This Google Street View shows that the road heading toward Lodge, T-junctions into the R493 road going to Puckaun: https://tinyurl.com/4vwbvfjr
Here is a Google Street View of Our Lady and St. Patrick’s Church in Puckaun: https://tinyurl.com/wrcdstms
The National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website just names the church, St. Patrick’s, and gives the more precise location of the church as Killadangan, Pucaun. The church was constructed in 1859. See the Buildings of Ireland link for more information, and a brief slide presentation: https://tinyurl.com/2p9jmczf
The Catholic Parish for Puckaun and surrounding townlands is called Monsea, according to information from the National Library of Ireland, which also shows the alternate names for the Monsea Parish are Cloughprior, Puckane, Killodiernan, Monsea and Killodiernan, and Cloughprior and Monsea.
The National Library of Ireland holds baptism records for the Monsea Catholic Parish from 1 February 1834 to 9 December 1865. Marriage records are held from 2 February 1834 to 13 November 1870. These records are available online for free from the National Library of Ireland, but do not extend far enough in time to include the baptism for Mary Darmody.
Go to the following link to see the Monsea parish registers availability and a map of the Monsea Catholic Parish and surrounding Catholic parishes. You’ll see that the Monsea parish borders to north and west of Nenagh: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0789
The name of the Parish Priest for the Parish Of Puckane (Cloghprior And Monsea), is Father William McCormack. Contact information can be found at the Killaloe Diocese website link:
If you email Father McCormack, or speak with him by phone or in person when you’re in Ireland, you can ask him if his church holds the 29 July 1903 marriage record for Stephen Kelly and Mary Darmody, explaining that the marriage record is not available at the National Library of Ireland.
The 1903 marriage record for Stephen and Mary shows that Stephen’s father was Thomas Kelly, employed as a Postman, and that Mary’s father was Patrick Darmody, a “Labourer.”
To find direct proof of their birth or baptism records however, you would need to know the maiden names of their mothers.
But, if I found a birth record for a Stephen Kelly whose father Thomas was a postman in Nenagh, I would say that would be substantial direct evidence for his birth.
While Kelly is one of the more numerous surnames in Ireland, the first name Stephen is not as numerous as say, Patrick or John, or Michael.
I looked for Stephen’s civil registration birth record at irishgenenalogy.ie between the years 1870 and 1885 to see if the birth of any child named Stephen Kelly was recorded in Nenagh Town whose father was Thomas.
I found only one birth record in that 15 year period. Stephen Kelly was born in Grace’s Street, Nenagh, on 30 July 1880. His father Thomas is shown to be a “Post Carrier.” His mother is Honoria Kelly, formerly Meagher. The name Meagher is generally pronounced, “Mah-her.” The person who was present at the birth and who reported the birth to the registrar was “Mary Grace, Nurse,” of Abbey Lane, Nenagh. Mary Grace signed the birth register with “her x mark.”
Stephen’s birth record is the second to the last entry in the register at number 302: https://tinyurl.com/4rawt5r3
This Ordnance Survey Map from the late 19th or early 20th century shows that Grace’s Street (now O’Rahilly Street), ties into Summer Hill toward the southeast. The map also shows that the St. Mary’s R.C. Chapel is located between Grace’s Street and Bachelor’s Walk in Nenagh: https://i2.paste.pics/O0M1O.png
You’ll also see on the map a smaller church called St. Mary’s, just south of St. Mary’s Catholic Church. This is the St. Mary’s Church of Ireland.
With the information from Stephen’s birth record I looked for the civil registration marriage record for Thomas Kelly and Honoria Meagher at the irishgenealogy.ie website. I found it showing their marriage took place in the Roman Catholic Chapel of Nenagh on 23 April 1872. At the time of marriage both were of “full age,” meaning 21 years old or older. Thomas’s occupation was “Labourer.” His residence at the time of marriage was Nenagh. His occupation was “Labourer.” His father was Edward Kelly, a “Carpenter.”
In the marriage record Honoria’s maiden name is spelled alternately as “Maher,” rather than Meagher.” Her occupation was “Servant.” Her residence at the time of marriage is recorded as “Do,” which means ditto, in other words the same birthplace as Thomas, that is, Nenagh. Honoria’s father was either Batt for (Bartholomew), or Patt Maher. His occupation was “Labourer.”
The clergyman who married Stephen and Honoria was Patrick O’Mally, P.P. The initials P.P. stand for Parish Priest. The witnesses to the marriage were John Lear and Margaret Feely. See the marriage record at: https://tinyurl.com/35mmcxcn
I then found the church marriage record for Thomas and “Honora,” at the National Library of Ireland website. The last name of the witness Margaret in the church marriage record however, looks like Ferhily, rather than Feely: https://i2.paste.pics/O01BW.png
It’s too bad the civil and church marriage records didn’t give the name of the streets in Nenagh where Thomas and Honoria were living.
The Roman Catholic Chapel referenced in the civil marriage record would not be St. Mary’s of the Rosary Church, located between the Church Road and O’Rahilly Street, formerly Bachelor’s Walk and Grace’s Street.
According to the nenaghparish.ie website, the foundation stone for St. Mary’s of the Rosary Church was installed on 2 October 1892. The church was dedicated in August of 1896, which means this present church structure would not be the church where Thomas Kelly and Honoria Maher were married in 1872. See: https://nenaghparish.ie/about/
The Ordnance Survey Map of Nenagh from the 19th century shows that the R.C. Chapel in Nenagh was located east of what was then Castle Street, which today is Pearse Street: https://i2.paste.pics/NY8OP.png
The Google Street View coming up is what I believe to be the old Nenagh R.C. Chapel, in ruins, where Thomas Kelly and Honoria Maher were married. The church is on the corner of Abbey and Friar Streets:
Your Nenagh ancestors prior to 1896 would have likely been baptized and married in the old R.C. Chapel pictured in the Google Street View.
The marriage record for Lawrence Kelly and Mary Darmody shows that at the time of marriage, Mary was living in the townland of Lodge, and that her father was Patt Darmody.
I looked for Mary’s civil registration birth record at the irishgenealogy.ie website and found one possibility, though I don’t know if this Mary Darmody is in your husband’s line.
Mary was born in Curragharneen, Tipperary, on 2 December 1879. Her father Patrick was a “Black Smith.” Her mother is Mary Darmody, formerly Mulcahy. Mary’s birth is number 234 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/4zj7y6ne
A Google Map shows that Curragharneen is south of Nenagh. Nenagh is halfway between Curragharneen and Lodge to the north. The distance from Curragharneen to Lodge, through Nenagh, is 18 miles: https://tinyurl.com/f6pb3jar
I would need to know the name of Mary’s mother to find direct evidence for her birth.
MARY KELLY’S DEATH RECORD
In her reply of 12 May 2023, Margot had written that Mary Kelly died in Ormond Street in 1941. I looked for Mary’s death record at irishgenealogy.ie
Mary died in Ormand Street, Nenagh (formerly The Old Turnpike), on April 17, 1941 at the age of 61. At the time of death she was a “Carrier’s Wife,” which would be a reference to a postal carrier.” The cause of death was “Myelitis Uraemia Cardiacfailure.” The person who was present at her death and who reported her death to the registrar was her daughter Bridget Gleeson, of O’Rahilly Street, Nenagh (formerly Bachelor’s Walk). Mary’s death is number 101 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/bddkhrmk
Knowing that Stephen and Mary Kelly’s daughter Bridget had married a fellow named Gleeson, I looked for Bridget’s marriage record at the irishgenealogy.ie website.
Bridget married Patrick Christopher Gleeson in the Roman Catholic Church of Nenagh on January 30, 1935. At the time of marriage both were of “full age.” Patrick’s occupation was “Clerk.” His residence was O’Rahilly Street, Nenagh. His father is Patrick Gleeson, a “Labourer.”
No occupation is recorded for Bridget. Her residence is Ormond Street, Nenagh. Her father is Stephen Kelly, a “Postman.”
The name of priest who married Patrick and Bridget looks like Jon O’Rahilly, C.C. The initials C.C. stand for Catholic Curate. The witnesses to the marriage were John Nagle and Elizabeth Kelly. See: https://tinyurl.com/3f2mp5u7
STEPHEN KELLY DEATH RECORD
Margot also wrote that Stephen Kelly died in Ormond Street, Nenagh, in 1963.
He died on 16 December of that year at the age of 84 years. His occupation had been “Postman.” The cause of death was, “Broncho-Pneumonia,” and “Chronic Hyocarditis.” As Margot had mentioned, Stephen’s daughter, Norah Kelly, had been present at his death. She too lived in Ormond Street. Stephen’s death is number 376 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/vf5ut8kc
Lynne, before you go to Nenagh, you can fill out a Meet and Greet form available at Ireland Reaching Out, to see if there is a volunteer available in the Nenagh area to show you around the town of your husband’s ancestors. You can access the Meet and Greet Form at:
I forgot to mention earlier that Nenagh in the Irish language is spelled, “Aonach Urmhumhan,” and means the “Fair of Ormond.”
Have a great time in Nenagh Lynne.
Ireland Reaching Out Volunteer Patricia's reply of Thursday 11th May 2023
Ireland Reaching Out Volunteer Kevin in his Reply of Friday 12 May 2023
GeoHive: Ordnance Survey Maps
Google Street Views
National Archives of Ireland 1911 Census
Nenagh’s Civil Registration Service
IreAtlas Townland Data Base
National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland
National Library of Ireland
Ireland Reaching Out Volunteer Margot's Reply of Sunday 12 May 2023
Ireland Reaching Out Meet and Greet Form