James McMullan (1810-1876)

JamesT,

The Mc & O’ prefixes in Irish names are detachable and it’s common to see the surname with and without them as you have found.  Spelling also varied considerably due to folk not always being very literate, but even when they were, they were mostly indifferent as to how their name was spelled.

Without more information about James I think you will struggle to find any record of his birth. Looking at the 1901 census of Co Antrim there were 77 people named James McMullan etc. The name will have been equally common in 1810. Without parents names there’s no real way of knowing whether any is the correct one. Are his parents names not on his US death certificate?

Your next problem is that a birth around 1810 is long before birth registration started in Ireland (1864) so you need to rely on church baptism records. Not all churches have baptism records for that period, and of those that do not all are on-line.

You say that James & Mary Jane married in Down & Connor in 1842 and that son Patrick was born there too. Down & Connor is a huge diocese comprising hundreds of parishes across several counties. Do you have any information on which specific parish they were married in, or where Patrick was baptised?  I can see a tree on Ancestry that gives James and Mary Jane as marrying in the parish of Layd on 1^st May 1842. Unfortunately I cannot find that marriage in the on-line Layd RC records. But that hint may give you a smaller geographical area to search. Layd is the area around the town of Cushendall, Co Antrim on the north east coast. McMullen & McDowell are common names in that area.

Possibly DNA testing may be a way of matching with others who have additional information about where the family originate. Family Tree DNA reportedly has more people with Ulster roots than any other company. That obviously increases the chances of finding a match. You might want to try them or, if you have already tested, you can transfer your results to them for no fee.

The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA project in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a reduced price.  http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website).

Thanks for the input Elwyn.  I didn't think it would be an easy request.  I am going to try to put the two documents I have found which matched James/Mary and their son Patrick since they were positives in my searches.

This document is from Ancestry for James and Mary's marriage.  I kept the url at top in case you have access to Ancestry.

Elwyn,

Sorry I wasn't that confident the first pic would send through so here is Patrick's baptismal.  

Sorry Elwyn, I tried to send the two files, but they are over 2 MB I is there any other way to get that info to you?  have already done my DNA and am on multiple sites (i.e. GEDmatch, FTDNA, multiple FB groups, etc.) however for all the reasons you expressed it's hard to get anyone with feedback since they would most likely be 4-5 generations back. What muddies the water even more is that my Irish surnames cover Donegal (Boyce), Tyrone, Derry, Antrim, Leitrim, Cavan, Connacht, East Galway, etc. per myself and my sisters DNA which I am pretty sure goes back earlier than 1800.   I have been thinking about getting my y-dna done if you have any suggestions I would like to hear.  I have attached the two files below so hopefully that will help, please let me know if you need anything else.  I also have the ship register of when they arrived in NYC to go to Philadelphia if you thought it would help.  Thanks again!

Jay

P.S. McDonnell was my third GGrandmother, was that still a common name?

James T,

None of your attachments were attached. As you say, possibly the size of the documents may be a factor.  You can e-mail them to me on:

ahoghill@irelandxo.com

The 2 surnames you have mentioned are both common in north east Antrim and the Ancestry tree hint that there may have been a marriage in Layd fits with that. My instincts are that that area could be where your ancestors lived.

You ask if McDonnell is a common name in that area. Yes very common. The McDonnells and many other residents of that area are mostly descendants of Scots from Kintyre, Islay, Gigha and adjacent islands who arrived in the Glens in the 1500s and 1600s.  (It’s only 11 miles across to Scotland at the closest point). If you are interested in the general background, Brian Turner’s recent book: “Family names in the Glens of Antrim” goes into considerable detail. There are multiple mentions of McDonnell & McMullen. (McDonnell tends to be MacDonald in Scotland but it’s the same surname, as is probably obvious).

I have found the  1842 marriage for a James McMullan & Mary Jane McDonnell in Ardclinis & Layd parish (top of the left hand page):

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633074#page/48/mode/1up

The entry is typical of the period. You get the date, the couples names and their 2 witnesses. No addresses or parents names etc, so beyond the fact that at least one of the couple lived in the parish you aren’t really much the wiser. There are 2 witnesses who presumably lived nearby and you could spend time searching for them but McMullan & McDonnell are both common names and so it may be hard to trace precisely where they lived. I note that the couple paid £1 to the priest. That appears to have been the standard payment at the time which tends to indicate they were neither very rich nor very poor. (Most priests would adjust the fee for poor or for wealthy folk).

I also spotted the baptism of their first child Patrick on 20.11.1842 in the same parish. Sponsors were Dl which I assume is “Daniel” M’Calister & Betty M’Calister.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633074#page/31/mode/1up

Again no townland (address).

Regarding DNA, I am not an expert on it, but the NIFHS (referred to in my previous reply) do have several experts, notably Martin McDowell. In addition to leading their DNA project he often runs Zoom workshops on Saturday mornings to discuss individual results. You could attend. He might be worth contacting for a detailed understanding of DNA results, including Y-DNA. (We are both Trustees of the NIFHS and he knows me well. You can tell him I suggested seeking his advice).

Thanks for the information Elwyn and e-mail is sent to you.  However, I looked at the links that you provided, and they are clearer versions of the documents I sent to you in e-mail.  You are a better interpreter of the written names as well.  I would have never guessed McAlister as the witnesses.  I will definitely look into the book and NIFHS, I feel like such a novice at researching and the zoom class seems like something I would be interested in attending.  Thanks again!  It seems I am not as far off as I thought.   

J.

James T,

I had a look at your attachments. As you say it’s the same records. When I first looked at your query I thought it might be hard to narrow your family down but having found the marriage and baptism, I am pretty confident this must be your family/families. So that gives you a specific area that they lived, but it’s still quite a wide area. 20 square miles I would have thought.

Quite understand re finding the handwriting difficult and not being able to make out some of the surnames. We can help with that because we are fairly used to them. Ask if unsure.

One general thing to know about Mc & Mac prefixes is that originally it was written M’ as in M’Calister or M’Donnell.  (And you can see that in those parish registers).  Mc & Mac variations gradually followed later. Possibly easier for printers, not entirely sure why, though you’ll find plenty of newspapers with M’ too.  Folk may tell you that Mac was Scottish and Mc was Irish, or alternatively it indicated whether you were protestant or catholic. All total nonsense. They just spelled things according to whim. Originally it was all just M’. You should also know that McConnell is a variation of McDonnell.  Watch out for that too.

You can see where Layde RC parish is on this map. RC parishes were generally a bit bigger than the civil parishes, and in this case the RC parish covers Layde and Ardclinis civil parishes. (So when searching any civil records bear both parishes in mind, not just Layde).

https://www.johngrenham.com/browse/counties/rcmaps/antrimrc.php#maps/

Do you have any clues as to James & Mary’s parents names, perhaps from their death certificates? Also do you know their fathers occupations?

If they happened to be farmers and were alive around 1826/28 then they should be listed in the tithe applotment records. Here are the tithes for both Layd & Ardclinis. You’ll find both surnames in both parishes:

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/ardclinis-parish.php

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/layd-parish.php

I do recommend Brian Turner’s excellent book on the surnames as both yours get detailed investigation and comment. There’s about 20 pages on McDonnell. I have e-mailed you 2 sample pages to give you a flavour. The book may mention your specific families but even if not, it should give you a bit of background to their lives in the Glens of Antrim and how they came to settle there.

The McDonnells current chief in Ireland, descended from Sorley Boy McDonnell who arrived from Islay in the 1500s, is the Earl of Antrim who lives in Glenarm Castle very close to Layde. The grounds and tea room are open to the public. And they usually have Highland Games once a year. Bagpipes, caber tossing, traditional dancing and all that rather entertaining nonsense.  

https://glenarmcastle.com/

If you want to learn more about your DNA, do get in touch with Martin McDowell.  Participation in his DNA project is free and he’ll answer e-mail questions about it. He really understands the subject in a way that I don’t. And if you join the periodic Saturday Zoom sessions he’ll again talk you through your own DNA. There might be a fee for that, not sure. Details on the NIFHS site. (It’s the DNA interest group.)

https://www.nifhs.org/dna/

You don’t have to join NIFHS to participate in the DNA project or attend the workshops and courses. But if you do decide to join, the branch covering the Glens is the Causeway Coast & Glens Branch.  (I am the Chair of that Branch). We have monthly talks which are streamed to members who can’t attend in person.

Elwyn,

All I can say is wow.  That's more information than I have found in over a year on the paternal side of my family.  I actually did a lookup on Ancestry DNA for MacDonald, McDonald, etc. and I have 50-60 ancestors who are 4th through 5th cousins so it all ties together.  Unfortunately, with the way death certificates were written in the mid 1800's some have Father/Mother, I haven't found parent names through FHL or Ancestry yet.  If I had a hunch John McDonnell was probably her father's name since it would match conventional naming methods of that time, however I hate to assume.  I am going to probably join NIFHS because it will help me get further in my research, and will definitely look into the zoom meetings since I am a novice when it comes to understanding DNA.  

On a side note, I wish I knew then what I know now.  In 2015 my family and I took a tour of Ireland (i.e. Dublin, Waterford, Kilkenny, Donegal, Derry, Belfast, etc.) and the sites which included Giants Causeway.  So I think it's fair to say we probably drove somewhere around Layde.  The next time we visit I am going to be more specific and probably focus on Donegal, Derry, and Antrim since both sides of the family are from those areas.  Thank you very much for all the information and guidance you have given me.

Jay

Jay,

Glad to have helped a little.